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Old 01-21-2016, 01:16 PM   #15
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The relay (solenoid) that makes the connection between your battery banks, is the small one behind the board in the BCC. The top solenoid is the Chassis disconnect and the bottom one is the house disconnect.

The small solenoid IS the connection point for;
  • Using the "Boost" or "Aux Start" function from the switch on the dash
  • Connecting to the chassis battery when charging from the coach converter.
  • Connecting to the Aux batteries when charging from the engine alternator.
  • Isolating the battery banks from each other when NO charging is taking place,
With ALL power removed, you need to ensure that there is NO connection (short) between the two large terminals of that solenoid.

Second point; The BIRD function requires the circuitry on the PC Board plus a properly functioning solenoid. If a previous owner cut those wires, he must have also added a connection to that isolator/charge solenoid to cause it to charge from the engine alternator ONLY. There should be no other wire going to that solenoid HOT, other than that cut wire.

By the way, your dash mounted aux start switch will not work either, if that wire is cut.
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder View Post
The relay (solenoid) that makes the connection between your battery banks, is the small one behind the board in the BCC. The top solenoid is the Chassis disconnect and the bottom one is the house disconnect.

The small solenoid IS the connection point for;
  • Using the "Boost" or "Aux Start" function from the switch on the dash
  • Connecting to the chassis battery when charging from the coach converter.
  • Connecting to the Aux batteries when charging from the engine alternator.
  • Isolating the battery banks from each other when NO charging is taking place,
With ALL power removed, you need to ensure that there is NO connection (short) between the two large terminals of that solenoid.

Second point; The BIRD function requires the circuitry on the PC Board plus a properly functioning solenoid. If a previous owner cut those wires, he must have also added a connection to that isolator/charge solenoid to cause it to charge from the engine alternator ONLY. There should be no other wire going to that solenoid HOT, other than that cut wire.

By the way, your dash mounted aux start switch will not work either, if that wire is cut.
Wow, that is some great info...I will check out when it quits raining...so the guy that cut the wires, probably did because the solenoid was bad....wonder why he didn't just unhook? Will checking the continuity across those posts of the small solenoid prove good or bad not knowing if it is open or closed?
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:33 PM   #17
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If the solenoid us bad why not replace it. Wow, cutting wires? I am with the others, start with converter output voltage, then verify solenoid operation (disconnect relay and isolator relay).
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:11 PM   #18
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Talking isolator relay

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Originally Posted by Redapple View Post
If the solenoid us bad why not replace it. Wow, cutting wires? I am with the others, start with converter output voltage, then verify solenoid operation (disconnect relay and isolator relay).
There is no isolator relay...evidently previous owner removed it and cut wires. converter has output voltage 14+ and I am in the middle of tracing wire from it. Generator doesn't charge battery either. I don't know what he did!!! I know the relay board is obsolete so don't know if that is reason he doctored it up...suggestions?
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder View Post
The relay (solenoid) that makes the connection between your battery banks, is the small one behind the board in the BCC. The top solenoid is the Chassis disconnect and the bottom one is the house disconnect.

The small solenoid IS the connection point for;
  • Using the "Boost" or "Aux Start" function from the switch on the dash
  • Connecting to the chassis battery when charging from the coach converter.
  • Connecting to the Aux batteries when charging from the engine alternator.
  • Isolating the battery banks from each other when NO charging is taking place,
With ALL power removed, you need to ensure that there is NO connection (short) between the two large terminals of that solenoid.

Second point; The BIRD function requires the circuitry on the PC Board plus a properly functioning solenoid. If a previous owner cut those wires, he must have also added a connection to that isolator/charge solenoid to cause it to charge from the engine alternator ONLY. There should be no other wire going to that solenoid HOT, other than that cut wire.

By the way, your dash mounted aux start switch will not work either, if that wire is cut.
d

Just got back home and in between rain, I removed the circuit board and there is no relay. I am tracing wired from inverter to see why I am not getting voltage...shouldn't I have same output voltage at the battery when hooked up to shore? There is two heavy red wires coming from my inverter and running under coach...I haven't been able to verify where they are going to...
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by swagn View Post
Just got back home and in between rain, I removed the circuit board and there is no relay. I am tracing wired from inverter to see why I am not getting voltage...shouldn't I have same output voltage at the battery when hooked up to shore? There is two heavy red wires coming from my inverter and running under coach...I haven't been able to verify where they are going to...
Those wires go to the BCC. They enter the BCC and connect to the two DC circuit breakers located in the bottom of the BCC box in figure #1 on page five of your manual. Those two circuit breakers are shown electrically, at the bottom left of figure #5 on page 16.

By the way, check the little plungers on the end of those breakers and make sure they are depressed to reset the breakers.

It would appear that a previous owner has determined that the BIRD function of the board was inoperative, and thus removed the isolator relay (which is also used for the cross charging of battery banks and the aux start function) to facilitate connecting the chassis and house batteries directly.

That will work electrically for charging and connectivity, but defeats the isolation function to prevent draining the chassis battery along with the house batteries.

The correct fix would be to replace that missing solenoid and wiring, and either fix/replace the board -OR- add an external BIRD module to replace the failing board function.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder View Post
Those wires go to the BCC. They enter the BCC and connect to the two DC circuit breakers located in the bottom of the BCC box in figure #1 on page five of your manual. Those two circuit breakers are shown electrically, at the bottom left of figure #5 on page 16.

By the way, check the little plungers on the end of those breakers and make sure they are depressed to reset the breakers.

It would appear that a previous owner has determined that the BIRD function of the board was inoperative, and thus removed the isolator relay (which is also used for the cross charging of battery banks and the aux start function) to facilitate connecting the chassis and house batteries directly.

That will work electrically for charging and connectivity, but defeats the isolation function to prevent draining the chassis battery along with the house batteries.

The correct fix would be to replace that missing solenoid and wiring, and either fix/replace the board -OR- add an external BIRD module to replace the failing board function.
Agree with this...

The bird relay is the circuit board, in part. The two visible relays (on an intact system) are the disconnect and Isolator relays.
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Old 02-02-2016, 11:24 PM   #22
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This is a picture of my BCC. Disconnect relay on top, Isolator relay on the bottom. The fuses are hooked into the BIRD circuit board. Don't know if tours looks similar, but I think the operation is the same.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:16 AM   #23
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So I should have 14.4 V (output of inverter) at the two wires in BCC? If I don't then that would say wire is shorted or disconnected between inverter and BCC when hooked up to shore power.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redapple View Post
This is a picture of my BCC. Disconnect relay on top, Isolator relay on the bottom. The fuses are hooked into the BIRD circuit board. Don't know if tours looks similar, but I think the operation is the same.
Redapple, your BCC is, what is referred to as, a single disconnect BCC. The OP's Bcc, model 524, has two disconnect solenoids and a more full function PC Board.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:00 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by swagn View Post
So I should have 14.4 V (output of inverter) at the two wires in BCC? If I don't then that would say wire is shorted or disconnected between inverter and BCC when hooked up to shore power.
Essentially, what you say is correct. Check the wires on the posts of those circuit breakers at the bottom of the BCC. The converter voltage should appear there, unless the wire is broken. If any do not have the voltage on the second terminal of the breaker, press the little plunger in the base of the breaker, and it should reset. Yours may be painted all black, but here is how they look.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:38 AM   #26
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Those wires go to the BCC. They enter the BCC and connect to the two DC circuit breakers located in the bottom of the BCC box in figure #1 on page five of your manual. Those two circuit breakers are shown electrically, at the bottom left of figure #5 on page 16.

By the way, check the little plungers on the end of those breakers and make sure they are depressed to reset the breakers.

It would appear that a previous owner has determined that the BIRD function of the board was inoperative, and thus removed the isolator relay (which is also used for the cross charging of battery banks and the aux start function) to facilitate connecting the chassis and house batteries directly.

That will work electrically for charging and connectivity, but defeats the isolation function to prevent draining the chassis battery along with the house batteries.

The correct fix would be to replace that missing solenoid and wiring, and either fix/replace the board -OR- add an external BIRD module to replace the failing board function.
I see one wire that goes to one circuit breaker on p 16. It shows around 12.2 V when hooked to shore power (unattached from blk) the other one appears to go to one side of solenoid behind circ bd. Other big red wore on circuit breaker above shows no voltage and goes to main battery. Would it be beneficial to run new wire from inverter to chassis battery and leave other wires alone?
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:05 PM   #27
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I see one wire that goes to one circuit breaker on p 16. It shows around 12.2 V when hooked to shore power (unattached from blk) the other one appears to go to one side of solenoid behind circ bd. Other big red wore on circuit breaker above shows no voltage and goes to main battery. Would it be beneficial to run new wire from inverter to chassis battery and leave other wires alone?
I prefer to use a repair technique that returns the circuits to original configuration and operation. If you would rather add wires and/or bypass failing components, that's your prerogative. Just be aware that you will be losing the protection of the circuit breakers and proper sized wires.
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Old 02-04-2016, 09:54 AM   #28
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Essentially, what you say is correct. Check the wires on the posts of those circuit breakers at the bottom of the BCC. The converter voltage should appear there, unless the wire is broken. If any do not have the voltage on the second terminal of the breaker, press the little plunger in the base of the breaker, and it should reset. Yours may be painted all black, but here is how they look.
It was tripped couple weeks ago and I reset it...basically nothing changed...one last remark/question before i throw in towel and take to shop...I ran new wire from converter to circuit breaker in BCC. Before I hooked it up it showed 13.8V. I used ground on vehicle and red to end of wire (voltmeter). As soon as I hooked the wire to CB it didn't change voltage (11.6v) before and after new wire for test. I then hooked to battery with all the other wires still hooked up and no change...could that be neutral wire from converter (white)? way too deep for me...
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