Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > RV SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGIES FORUMS > RV Systems & Appliances
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-22-2021, 03:12 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
tqqest's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Draper, UT / Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 312
If you build your own, which is very easy to do, lifepo4 batteries can be cheaper than AGM. I did a group order on the diysolar forum. I paid $1,565 for 16 new 280ah cells. I then bought 4 plastic battery boxes for $48, 4 120ah Bluetooth enabled BMSs for $520, and assorted cabling, terminals, etc for another $200. I then assembled from that, 4 separate 280ah battery packs, that total 1,120ah of battery power.

Total investment was roughly $2,400, or $600 for each 280ah battery. Pretty close to what 8 220ah 6 volt AGM batteries would be. But, my 8 AGM were 880ah of which about 530ah are usable at a 60% depth of discharge. My lifepo4 can very easily do an 80% depth of discharge for 900ah of power.

The biggest pluses are, how flat the voltage is throughout the discharge cycle, and how quickly they can be recharged. I can’t see ever going back to a FLA battery again.
__________________
Tad & Carol
2022 Newmar Dutch Star 4369 Freightliner
2020 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited
tqqest is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-22-2021, 07:45 PM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 28
I guess it all depends on what your requirements are. I mainly boondock and all my requirements are met with 2 golf cart batteries from Costco. 175 AH. Never go below 1/2 capacity. $120 each. Your requirements could be different. I do almost no battery maintenance and get at least 5 years out of a set. You can pay a lot more for lead acid batteries but I'm happy with those at Costco.


If I need that microwave or want toast, I have a 5500 Watt generator. That's what it's for.



Battle Born (which many recommend) 100 AH battery $949 (on sale for $799). Never good to run any type of battery dead so best to buy 2 for a total of $1598+tax compared to $240+ tax for 2 Costco golf cart batteries. That would be 6.7 times more. More capacity but I don't need it.



If you buy the cheap lithium 100 AH from Amazon for $366 each+tax it would be 3 times more.


I don't go out and buy the latest thing unless I can see a benefit. I'll never line up for the latest iphone.

I'm not saying that there are no benefits to lithium but I don't buy the oft put forward theme that lithium are lower cost in the long run or by the AH when compared to real world RV usage.

Before calling fake news, better check your facts.
smeg99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 08:12 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,554
Blog Entries: 3
You can't run a lithium battery flat. When it gets to its minimum operating voltage, the controller inside the battery shuts it off. Just like a lithium battery in your power tools.
__________________
2006 Damon Daybreak 3276 35'with 5 Star Tuner. 3 200 Amp Lithium batteries and 2000 watt PSW inverter/charger. 2013 Elantra on a Master Tow dolly.
Retired USAF
HarryStone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 08:28 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
corn18's Avatar


 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg99 View Post
I guess it all depends on what your requirements are. I mainly boondock and all my requirements are met with 2 golf cart batteries from Costco. 175 AH. Never go below 1/2 capacity. $120 each. Your requirements could be different. I do almost no battery maintenance and get at least 5 years out of a set. You can pay a lot more for lead acid batteries but I'm happy with those at Costco.


If I need that microwave or want toast, I have a 5500 Watt generator. That's what it's for.



Battle Born (which many recommend) 100 AH battery $949 (on sale for $799). Never good to run any type of battery dead so best to buy 2 for a total of $1598+tax compared to $240+ tax for 2 Costco golf cart batteries. That would be 6.7 times more. More capacity but I don't need it.



If you buy the cheap lithium 100 AH from Amazon for $366 each+tax it would be 3 times more.


I don't go out and buy the latest thing unless I can see a benefit. I'll never line up for the latest iphone.



Before calling fake news, better check your facts.
2x210Ah golf cart batteries = $240 = 105Ah usable $2.29 / Ah

1x100Ah LiFePO4 = $399 = 100 Ah usable $3.99 / Ah

1.74X to LiFePO4, not 3x.

If you want to go high quality, get a SOK 100Ah LiFePO4 for $570, $5.70 / Ah. That's 2.5x your setup.

You decide what you value. Making a blanket statement that it isn't worth the extra cost is folly. It sure is to me.

This little setup gives me 206Ah. Try putting 206Ah of FLA in that space (hint: you can't, it's in my basement). And I have another 206Ah battery on the way. You would need 8 golf cart batteries to get that much Ah. My 2 batteries weigh 72 lbs. 8 golf cart batteries weigh 464 lbs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DC wiring 290RL pic.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	243.8 KB
ID:	343919  
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Hemisphere 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
800W Solar > 412 aH LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 08:40 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Lansing MI
Posts: 2,079
Some folks like blondes, some folks like redheads, and some like brunettes. Some like Fords, some like Chevys, some like Dodges. I could go on and on. The point being that for some folks FLA works just fine, for some others it doesn't. Personally I can see advantages and disadvantages for both, it's whatever fits your personal situation best. There's no need to argue about it.
__________________
An Old Fisherman
2017 Nexus Ghost 36DS, 2004 Ford F150 Long Bed
2007 Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic
arcaguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 08:46 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 695
I'm all for the new technology. I'll go with one of the $399 Lithium's though.
__________________
Camping and boondocking since 1960
Camper25 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 09:01 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,182
I am not arguing what is better but the statement that lifepo4 is 5x more is just wrong …..

Yes lifepo4 is more than FLA but in no way is it 5x more.

Also comparing FLA to battle borne is like a yugo to a Bugatti let’s compare the yugo to a Ford expedition. Both the Bugatti and the expedition are lifepo4 and they will all get you to the market.

How do I know because I decided it’s better for me. 1350 for 400 ah of lifepo4………how much do you pay for 400 ah. of FLA I am sure it is much more than 270.00 that’s 1/5th of 1350.
__________________
New to us 2000 Monaco executive 40 500hp tag
Biljol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 09:19 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
nvs4602's Avatar
 
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
2x210Ah golf cart batteries = $240 = 105Ah usable $2.29 / Ah

1x100Ah LiFePO4 = $399 = 100 Ah usable $3.99 / Ah

1.74X to LiFePO4, not 3x.

If you want to go high quality, get a SOK 100Ah LiFePO4 for $570, $5.70 / Ah. That's 2.5x your setup.

You decide what you value. Making a blanket statement that it isn't worth the extra cost is folly. It sure is to me.

This little setup gives me 206Ah. Try putting 206Ah of FLA in that space (hint: you can't, it's in my basement). And I have another 206Ah battery on the way. You would need 8 golf cart batteries to get that much Ah. My 2 batteries weigh 72 lbs. 8 golf cart batteries weigh 464 lbs.
So are you gong to drive up and help me this winter to install mine? You are about 80 miles south of me.
nvs4602 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 10:01 PM   #23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 1,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg99 View Post
.....(not counting the fact that the extra lithium $$ can be invested) ......
Or if you are retired, the money comes from investments.

Did take money out to pay cash for a house in winter and RV lot because we enjoyed them. Turned out to be good investments.

Bought a new sail for enjoyment. Not an investment.

Even when doing something for enjoyment, I consider cost.

I have heard it said, 'he who has the most toys wins'.
followingsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 10:20 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
corn18's Avatar


 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvs4602 View Post
So are you gong to drive up and help me this winter to install mine? You are about 80 miles south of me.
Absolutely. I grew up in Wapak.
__________________
2015 Chevy 2500HD 6.0 4x4 CC SB
2021 Salem Hemisphere 290RL
Andersen Ultimate
800W Solar > 412 aH LiFePO4 > Victron MultiPlus II
corn18 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 11:20 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Northern California
Posts: 872
Lots of benefits/advantages to LiFePO4. I'll try to summarize .....

Advantages:
Safer than acid (it's the BMS)
Self-protecting (it's the BMS)
Requires less solar (about 35% less)
Charges far faster (for generator users)
Lighter
Smaller
Voltage holds up well down to ~10% SOC
Longer life
Cheaper if you can DIY
Some have built-in monitoring via BT
Low losses *


Disadvantages:
May cost more for some
Can't charge if battery is below 32F


* Take 100 Ah out of a 200 Ah AGM and it's down to 40% SOC. Take 100 Ah out of a 200 Ah LiFePO4 and it's down to 50% SOC.
__________________
2020 GMC Denali 2500HD Crew 4X4 Gas 6.6L
Rockwood 8280WS (30' 5th)
Solar and LiFePO4. 12V NovaKool fridge
hclarkx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2021, 11:35 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
paul65k's Avatar


 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 2,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg99 View Post
Lithium batteries cost 5 times+ more than golf cart batteries from Costco. I get 5 years from golf cart batteries with minimum maintenance. No special charging required - just plug in, generator, drive and solar panels. All my requirements are covered.


To break even (not counting the fact that the extra lithium $$ can be invested) I'd have to have the same motorhome for 25 years.That will not happen. I will not even alive in 25 years.


So why buy lithium? Is it just the latest "big deal"?
Just curious....if you could wave a magic wand how much more if any do you think lithium batteries are worth ??
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291)-1600W Solar, 13,440Wh (525Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
paul65k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 06:45 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
Marine359's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 439
People with 200ah of FLA must endure the self-induced torture of being hooked to shore power or running a generator for hours on end to recharge those puppies. Alternatively, they can pay over $500 to wire up their TV and install a dc to dc charger. Something nobody mentions when doing a cost comparison of FLA vrs LiFePo4.

Additionally, if I run my small generator for two hours to charge my LiFePo4 from 30% to 100% SOC, and I do that 15 times, I use one 20lb tank of propane. To charge FLA from 30 to 100, 15 times, I’d have to use three or four times the amount of propane. If it costs $3.75/gal of propane, I will have made up the cost difference between FLA and LiFePo4 in two years just on the cost savings on propane. Of course, if you don’t do much boondocking, it don’t matter. If you do, it matters a lot, not to mention the equivalent weight of FLA would overload my TV Rear GAWR.

So, people will make any kind of irrational argument to justify their choices. Ever wonder why you hear motorhome generators running through the night? It’s because their auto gen start keeps the generator running seemingly forever to charge their FLA battery bank. But hey, they can afford the fuel for that right? But they can’t afford LiFePo4 which, even in the short run would cost them less than burning all that fuel.
__________________
Jim. 2021 Canyon Denali 4x4 3.6L, Husky C-Line
2021b Micro Mini 2108DS, 170AH LiFePo4, Xantrex XC2000, 110w Solar Suitcase, Champion 2500w df
Marine359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 07:53 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryStone View Post
You can't run a lithium battery flat. When it gets to its minimum operating voltage, the controller inside the battery shuts it off. Just like a lithium battery in your power tools.
Most LifePO4 BMS have a way to "wake them up" so you can charge a over discharged battery.

This is where DIY build are better, you have direct access to the cells and can bypass the BMS if needed.

BMS = Battery Management System
jrollf is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries, lithium



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3 (2 members and 1 guests)
Bedlam, Nomadist
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Batteries to lithium or not to lithium sciblades RV Systems & Appliances 18 03-21-2021 11:40 PM
RV Lithium Lite & Lithium Super Upgrade Systems - Mike Mas Idleup iRV2.com General Discussion 10 02-20-2021 05:26 PM
Chuck, about extra filters and excellent Entegra service going the extra 2 miles johnnyreno Entegra Owner's Forum 20 10-13-2014 07:22 PM
Extra extra read all about it...... deSanford Monaco Owner's Forum 9 08-29-2012 03:49 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.