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Old 12-03-2021, 09:33 PM   #281
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Please make it stop! I will add Li batteries to my Signature if you will just stop trying to make me put batteries in my wife’s kitchen cabinets!
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Old 12-04-2021, 04:51 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bylandorsea View Post
Please make it stop! I will add Li batteries to my Signature if you will just stop trying to make me put batteries in my wife’s kitchen cabinets!
Stop trying to make it sound like SiO2 is the greatest battery since sliced bread. I wonder why everyone doesn't buy SiO2 over AGM or FLA?
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Old 12-04-2021, 07:39 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Bylandorsea View Post
Please make it stop! I will add Li batteries to my Signature if you will just stop trying to make me put batteries in my wife’s kitchen cabinets!
Having a Dutchstar with a giant well insulated heated basement the kitchen cabinets would probably be the last place I would put lithiums not sure why you seem fixated on that solution.

Most likely I would just stick a $50 heating pad on the existing battery tray if I was fond of sub-freezing camping adventures, if I wanted to get fancy maybe insulating the existing battery compartment better since there is no need to worry about explosive gas build up in it anymore as other Dutchstar owners have done.

If that was not satisfactory perhaps I would move them to the existing heated basement area and use the old battery compartment for storage of items that don't require heat.

Not sure I would invest top tier heated Lithium levels of money in a Chinese lead acid battery that has similar cycle life but only at 50% DoD while still having all the other downsides of lead such as absorb charging and Puekert and wieght but obviously the choice is yours, its a very uncommon one as shown by Sio2 market share.

Looking forward this is what a battery bay on a Dutchstar will probably be like in the future, here is the King Aires lithium battery setup in the basement (not in the kitchen cabinets) that has 3 times the capacity of the old giant AGM bank and can run two roof airs no generator and should last the lifetime of the coach all in a skinny little compartment:

https://youtu.be/wNcpM3aGnCk?t=87
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:55 AM   #284
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Update on my build.

The mini-split is now (mostly) installed. I had two jobs for Adam's Mobile Air (near Dallas, TX): to install the a/c unit and to diagnose the issue I was having with my Webasto heater. They corrected the installation of the Webasto and it's been working perfectly the past few nights.

The 12kW unit evaporator unit is a full 10" wider than the 9kW unit and thus I had to sacrifice my cabinet just like Generis did in his build in the monster thread I'm also updating over at DIYSolar Forum. Bummer but couldn't be helped since I'm short on time.



We also added support to the shelf to take some load off the welds at the bumper. I find out tomorrow if I've screwed myself with tight left turns because I have a generator box on my trailer tongue.



I also paid a visit to Signature Solar (Friday). They are experiencing an explosion in business. Good for them.

The good news is that they think I'll have my battery "soon" (before Christmas). The bad news is that their Growatt equipment may not work for me. I have two places I can put the equipment, under the bed and in the outside compartment. I want to keep it under the bed where it will stay warmer (even though I've already bought a warming pad I can turn on when visiting colder locations to do some skiing).

However, the Growatt does not have a remote control or control software on the phone (just monitoring); it's not practical to keep lifting the mattress just to make adjustments or turn it on and off. My current Giandel has a handy remote that's mounted in a convenient location.

So I'm looking at different equipment. The nice thing about the Growatt was it saved some space by being a combined inverter and MPPT charge controller.

Here are my requirements:

Inverter/Charge controller
• 240V inverter with more than 4kW output to run the microwave and a/c unit
• MPPT charge controller
• at least a basic remote for on/off
• pull from solar and the battery simultaneously (in case a cloud covers the panels)
• charge battery when there is extra juice

Converter/charger:
• 120V to 48V (already spec'd)

Transformer:
• 48V to 12V (already spec'd)

Manual Switch
• switch between shore power and solar/battery power (already installed)

Solar:
• 4 440W panels (Signature Solar has some bifacials in stock)
• single axis actuators to lift panels (already spec'd)

Battery:
• 48V LiPo (should arrive soon)

My project this weekend is to find the equipment above. I'm pretty sure Victron can do all this; perhaps I'll start there even though they are pricier than other brands.
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Old 12-04-2021, 12:35 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Having a Dutchstar with a giant well insulated heated basement the kitchen cabinets would probably be the last place I would put lithiums not sure why you seem fixated on that solution.

Most likely I would just stick a $50 heating pad on the existing battery tray if I was fond of sub-freezing camping adventures, if I wanted to get fancy maybe insulating the existing battery compartment better since there is no need to worry about explosive gas build up in it anymore as other Dutchstar owners have done.

If that was not satisfactory perhaps I would move them to the existing heated basement area and use the old battery compartment for storage of items that don't require heat.

Not sure I would invest top tier heated Lithium levels of money in a Chinese lead acid battery that has similar cycle life but only at 50% DoD while still having all the other downsides of lead such as absorb charging and Puekert and wieght but obviously the choice is yours, its a very uncommon one as shown by Sio2 market share.

Looking forward this is what a battery bay on a Dutchstar will probably be like in the future, here is the King Aires lithium battery setup in the basement (not in the kitchen cabinets) that has 3 times the capacity of the old giant AGM bank and can run two roof airs no generator and should last the lifetime of the coach all in a skinny little compartment:

https://youtu.be/wNcpM3aGnCk?t=87
Solar and batteries continue to improve rapidly and the price of both is dropping rapidly. It is dangerous to catch a falling knife. Today good LiFePo4 batteries need to drop 40-50 % at that point I will consider a solar install at my house where I could put Li batteries in a unfinished basement.

In the RV I don’t have an extra unused 1500 sq ft. In the MH the batteries go in the compartment with the big slide out battery tray with all the wiring and cables for the house/inverter system.

I am not going to remodel my MH and loose storage or living area to fit batteries with only marginally better performance and not as good when comparing watts per $$

The only thing that I might consider giving up space in my basement for would be a climate controlled wine cellar!
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Old 12-04-2021, 12:44 PM   #286
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That's fine, just don't complain when I choose to re-utilize a nearly useless circa 2ft x 2ft kitchen cabinet that one had to lay down on the floor to reach through an 9 inch wide door opening to access as a climate controlled battery compartment.
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Old 12-04-2021, 08:23 PM   #287
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That's fine, just don't complain when I choose to re-utilize a nearly useless circa 2ft x 2ft kitchen cabinet that one had to lay down on the floor to reach through an 9 inch wide door opening to access as a climate controlled battery compartment.
Isaac-1 If I were in your your shoes I would do the same as you and my wife would understand, well she might take a little convincing.

Your prospective determined the answer to the question “Lithium Batteries are NOT Worth the Extra Cost?” I can see in your RV in your case LiFePo4 batteries would be worth it.

In my RV and from my prospective not yet. But maybe soon as the price continues to drop
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Old 12-04-2021, 08:26 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharrell View Post
Having a Dutchstar with a giant well insulated heated basement the kitchen cabinets would probably be the last place I would put lithiums not sure why you seem fixated on that solution.

Most likely I would just stick a $50 heating pad on the existing battery tray if I was fond of sub-freezing camping adventures, if I wanted to get fancy maybe insulating the existing battery compartment better since there is no need to worry about explosive gas build up in it anymore as other Dutchstar owners have done.

If that was not satisfactory perhaps I would move them to the existing heated basement area and use the old battery compartment for storage of items that don't require heat.

Not sure I would invest top tier heated Lithium levels of money in a Chinese lead acid battery that has similar cycle life but only at 50% DoD while still having all the other downsides of lead such as absorb charging and Puekert and wieght but obviously the choice is yours, its a very uncommon one as shown by Sio2 market share.

Looking forward this is what a battery bay on a Dutchstar will probably be like in the future, here is the King Aires lithium battery setup in the basement (not in the kitchen cabinets) that has 3 times the capacity of the old giant AGM bank and can run two roof airs no generator and should last the lifetime of the coach all in a skinny little compartment:

https://youtu.be/wNcpM3aGnCk?t=87
If I had that King Aire I would be a happy man!
Oh and I would have lithium battery setup too!
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Old 12-12-2021, 10:21 AM   #289
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I can't seem to find the definition of a "LiFePO4" lithium ion battery. What does LiFePO4 stand for?
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Old 12-12-2021, 10:39 AM   #290
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Lithium Iron Phosphate, it is one of a number of Lithium battery types
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Old 03-17-2022, 07:15 PM   #291
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Lithium is cheaper than Lead acid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg99 View Post
Lithium batteries cost 5 times+ more than golf cart batteries from Costco. I get 5 years from golf cart batteries with minimum maintenance. No special charging required - just plug in, generator, drive and solar panels. All my requirements are covered.


To break even (not counting the fact that the extra lithium $$ can be invested) I'd have to have the same motorhome for 25 years.That will not happen. I will not even alive in 25 years.


So why buy lithium? Is it just the latest "big deal"?
Lithium is cheaper than Lead acid. That is if you believe the data in this video.

https://youtu.be/iy3hga_P5YY
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Old 03-17-2022, 07:55 PM   #292
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The most talked about advantages of lithium batteries are capacity and longevity.

Less talked about, and not appreciated until having lithium batteries is the improved user experience when dry camping.

The bit higher voltage and very flat discharge curve keep the battery at 13+ volts most all the time. Plus they sag very little under heavy load. So the performance is consistent throughout the typical discharge cycle. Appliances and such in the coach just work better.

Lithium charge faster. Better usage of solar production, less generator run time, etc.

The BMS (battery management system) prevents damage to the battery. Overly discharging or charging, temperature excursions, etc. The BMS shuts down to protect the battery.
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Old 03-18-2022, 07:11 AM   #293
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This is a thread I've loosely followed for a long time and there have been some great comments, I've learned a lot but I don't understand why the question is continually asked. I run one AC for almost two days and two nights. I run two ACs easily for one day and one night. I heat my 43' class A, easily over night. Either way, as long as I have sun, all four of my 1200AH lithiums are fully charged by around 9:00AM without ever hearing a generator because, yes, liths charge that much more efficiently. Are liths more expensive than 6 volt batteries? I don't mean any offense to anyone but it's actually a dumb question. It's like asking if a Volkswagen Beetle is better than a Kenworth T680 – its not apples to apples, it's apples to kumquats from Mars. Are liths cost prohibitive? What do you want to do? What are you going to haul in your Volkswagen, 80,000 pounds? If you don't want to haul 80,000 pounds and your Volkswagen serves you just fine, then your Volkswagen is the best choice for you. You aren't ever going to get the same performance from a LA, 6 volt, golf cart battery that you can get from an 8D size lith. You won't get the same performance from a LA battery that you'll get from lith of the size. I can boondock for as long as my food and water supply lasts and all I had to give up is that POS, RV washing machine.
One of the comments I see all the time is, "liths are too expensive I don't need them". RVs are too expensive, you don't them.
I won't be alive in 25 years either but I want want get the best and most out of the time I do have left. The reality of LA batteries is, a huge learning curve and lots of constant maintenance. If I never have to check gravities again it'll be too soon! If I never have to clean sulfated connections again, it will be too soon. If buying cheap Costco bats and throwing them away when they're used up works for you – GREAT. I threw away my Costco batteries at the beginning of every season on my boat, that worked for me. I listened to generators on boats as much as I care to, I don't want to listen to them in my RV. Liths vs LA isn't a question about which is better, which is more cost efficient, or which can do more, it's a question of what works best for you.
Am I looking at this all wrong? Am I missing something?
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Old 03-18-2022, 09:24 AM   #294
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Ask anyone that has converted to lithium from LA or installed lithium, if they regret it, or are in any way dissatisfied.

There is your answer.

LA has its place in weekend warriors, but for a full timer, Lithium is the way to go if the entry cost can be covered.

In the last two months I have burned up a few hundred dollars worth of gas and this was just getting by, not doing what I want... when my lithium/solar system is in place, I will have all the juice I want and I will not be spending a dime on generating power, heating or cooling. While you can do this with LA, it would take at least twice the physical space and you'd be changing out the batteries every 3-5 years due to the heavy use and the constant cycling.

YMMV IANAL
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