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Old 09-23-2021, 09:05 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by smeg99 View Post
I guess it all depends on what your requirements are. I mainly boondock and all my requirements are met with 2 golf cart batteries from Costco. 175 AH. Never go below 1/2 capacity. $120 each. Your requirements could be different. I do almost no battery maintenance and get at least 5 years out of a set. You can pay a lot more for lead acid batteries but I'm happy with those at Costco.


If I need that microwave or want toast, I have a 5500 Watt generator. That's what it's for.



Battle Born (which many recommend) 100 AH battery $949 (on sale for $799). Never good to run any type of battery dead so best to buy 2 for a total of $1598+tax compared to $240+ tax for 2 Costco golf cart batteries. That would be 6.7 times more. More capacity but I don't need it.



If you buy the cheap lithium 100 AH from Amazon for $366 each+tax it would be 3 times more.


I don't go out and buy the latest thing unless I can see a benefit. I'll never line up for the latest iphone.

I'm not saying that there are no benefits to lithium but I don't buy the oft put forward theme that lithium are lower cost in the long run or by the AH when compared to real world RV usage.

Before calling fake news, better check your facts.
Either you are being disingenuous or you don't want to hear things you don't agree with. Batteries are a strange thing to be zealous about because there are multiple viable options and things are a matter of choice.

Let's take your case of modest battery usage. It is very much like mine.

I have a 100Ah LifePo battery. It cost me about $500 when I purchased it. The same battery is about $400 now, and falling. But I paid about $500. I bought nothing else, no cables, no new converter or charger. I now enjoy 90AH to 100AH of chargeable and usable power, which is what I need to get me through a couple days. It weighs 30 pounds at the front of my 5er, sits neatly in the battery compartment, and I am watching my weight.

You bought two 6v golf cart batteries, for $240 apparently. 175 AH, which by your statement you take down to 50%, so ... 90-100 Ah of used capacity (same as me!). You also bought some cables I assume when you installed them, but we won't nit pick. Maybe you bought a battery box or different tie downs for them - I don't know if that's needed in your configuration. I do know your batteries weigh 120 pounds or so, and would not have been an option for me.

So, your original premise that Li costs 5 times as much seems specious. It seems like it was meant to inflame or argue. By my math, based on a pretty valid real world comparison, it is much closer to 2x as much. And those are day 1 costs - no need to extend the equation on life of the batteries, I will agree my solution costs twice what yours did for equivalent use case when I bought them. And I sure appreciate those extra 90 pounds I am not hauling around.

Lithium is cheaper today than it was last year, and will be cheaper again next year.

Should we do gas vs. diesel next?
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Old 09-23-2021, 09:16 AM   #30
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Either you are being disingenuous or you don't want to hear things you don't agree with.

Should we do gas vs. diesel next?
Yep said that in page 1, his mind is made up.
Why should any of us care or reason with someone arguing for Fla?
Honestly we are adults who should by now, know how to read, research and make informed decisions.
Its one thing to ask for real life experience, but if they just want to stand on the lead acid platform and beat their chest.
No one cares
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:39 AM   #31
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Yep said that in page 1, his mind is made up.
Why should any of us care or reason with someone arguing for Fla?
Honestly we are adults who should by now, know how to read, research and make informed decisions.
Its one thing to ask for real life experience, but if they just want to stand on the lead acid platform and beat their chest.
No one cares
Looks like a post to just stir things up..... why do people waste their time like this
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:50 PM   #32
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People with 200ah of FLA must endure the self-induced torture of being hooked to shore power or running a generator for hours on end to recharge those puppies. .....
I am retired living full time in a MH. When I am not sailing (a quire activity) or visiting family, I am boondocking because I enjoy it.

Not torture!

Batteries are batteries. I am an engineer I know these things.

Sure I do not want a FLA in my shirt pocket powering my cell phone.

For the application of starting ICE and powering RV or floating RV (aka boat), FLA are the best choice.

I will admit when younger, I bought Sears DieHard stating batteries. Now I by the cheapest battery based on amp rating at Sam's Club or Walmart.

When spending more money maybe being skeptical is a good thing. How much more safer, how much more efficient, how much lighter? Do marginal differences matter for your application?
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Old 09-23-2021, 11:22 PM   #33
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To each his own.

I prefer lithium because of weight, more usable full power cycles over it's life, more usuable power without potential cell damage, faster charge rate and often higher max discharge rate when compared to 12v FLA.

What this means to me is that my solar system has a much greater chance of fully charging my batteries during the day and limits the need for generator or DC-DC charging.

It means that my 3kW inverter can run my air conditioner if needed

It means that I can go longer without external power

It means that I can put my 4 batteries inside under the jackknife and replace the battery box with a toolbox and free up storage.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:07 AM   #34
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When spending more money maybe being skeptical is a good thing. How much more safer, how much more efficient, how much lighter? Do marginal differences matter for your application?
A lot. Far from marginal. And I don't need a face shield/safety glasses when working around my LiFePO4.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:47 AM   #35
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When spending more money maybe being skeptical is a good thing. How much more safer, how much more efficient, how much lighter? Do marginal differences matter for your application?
Skepticism is good.

Skeptical and cynical are not the same thing.

The OP concluded there is never a reason to use Li instead of FLA batteries because of a false cost proposition. That's not being skeptical.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:47 AM   #36
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How does cold weather affect Lithium batteries?
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:47 PM   #37
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All batteries rely on chemical processes , so cold weather slows things down.

Most will discharge down to 0 F. Some will not charge below 0 C. My Battleborne say they will charge at 27 F, but I am not anxious to test that. Mine are inside, and if it has been cold enough for long enough that the batteries themselves are too cold to charge I would have long since gone home.
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Old 09-24-2021, 07:23 PM   #38
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I had lithium batteries in my Navion and loved them. No maintenance, no fuss and no worries. I never ran out of power, and they were so much lighter than others. I wish I had them now. They were definitely worth it to me.
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Old 09-24-2021, 07:25 PM   #39
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Any high endv RV is hard to justify from a financial perspective. It is cheaper to stay in budget hotels.
Most of the people who are going to lithium are not trying to get the lowest cost solution, Lithium cost more for sure, but many are willing to pay that extra cost because of its non financial advantages.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:02 PM   #40
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You can't run a lithium battery flat. When it gets to its minimum operating voltage, the controller inside the battery shuts it off. Just like a lithium battery in your power tools.
Or electric vehicle. Common myth though. Even among EV drivers. The LFP batteries in RV’s look like ordinary batteries but they have some serious electronics in them. Some good youtube videos on their innards.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:24 PM   #41
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Oh Puleeese!
This argument has gone on for too long.
Those who use cost as the only metric, would have saved a lot more money by buying a tent instead of a motorhome. FLA are dinosaurs. Suitable for someone who has had them for decades. Amazes me that people will not flinch at spending massive amounts of money on their rig, but will have a seizure if they may have to pay a few hundred dollars more for LiFePo4 than FLA. LiFePo4 have so many more advantages, it’s crazy. Cost per amphr is now very close to AGM. 6v golf cart batteries are much cheaper, but who wants to take care of those, and not an option for most TT owners due to weight. Unless you plan to ditch your rig in 4 years or less, LiFePo4 is far superior to any other battery type.

I’m now preparing for incoming!,,
X2 re. the tent argument. Valid point!
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:30 PM   #42
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Lithium batteries cost 5 times+ more than golf cart batteries from Costco. I get 5 years from golf cart batteries with minimum maintenance. No special charging required - just plug in, generator, drive and solar panels. All my requirements are covered.


To break even (not counting the fact that the extra lithium $$ can be invested) I'd have to have the same motorhome for 25 years.That will not happen. I will not even alive in 25 years.


So why buy lithium? Is it just the latest "big deal"?
If you use your batteries so infrequently that it would take 25 years to pay you back, you wouldn't switch to lithium.

Lithium is way better for those that are on battery a lot.

-B
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