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Old 09-27-2021, 03:30 PM   #99
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When I bought my new to me pace arrow, the house batteries were shot. Instead of installing two six volt batteries in series, I installed one 12 volt battery. It saved money and weight. In the 53 years we have been camping, we have dry camped maybe 12 times. My wife just will not stay overnight in anything other than a campground. ( with the exception of a relatives yard, and even then we are usually plugged into power.) so for me one 12 volt battery is plenty.
If I were a boondocker I would certainly have more battery power and would probably go with lithium.
One other factor no one mentions is how much money you save by staying at a Walmart or other free overnight area. How soon do you make back that money you spent on lithium batteries so you can boondock.
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Old 09-27-2021, 03:49 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by NorCal Hal View Post
That's a good price per their capacity. Where can you get them? What kind of warranty? I usually TRY to get a 3 year warranty on the L/A but that is getting harder to find. Do you have a website?
Here you go and these come with a 5 year warranty

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/526228101
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:23 PM   #101
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Mineral Oil & batteries

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Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek View Post
I easily get 8-12 years from flooded cell batteries. The secret is using 2 oz of mineral oil per cell. And then my lackadaisical service routine isn't so important to battery life since the water stays in the cells. Doesn't hurt to have a 'smart' converter so they're not overcharged like in the old days.
Please elaborate on the mineral oil as I to have you style of battery maintenance. Is it a particular type or brand of oil?
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:59 PM   #102
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Here you go and these come with a 5 year warranty

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/526228101

That's a good battery and Walmart will back it up too. Nice
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Old 09-27-2021, 06:39 PM   #103
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Here you go and these come with a 5 year warranty

https://www.walmart.com/ip/seort/526228101
I must be missing something you said you could buy 5,000WH of Lithium batteries for $ 1,300.

These 100 AH (1200 WH) cost $ 400 each. So, 4,800WH @ $ 1600? Close.

and as pointed out before a lot less maintenance...
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Old 09-27-2021, 07:07 PM   #104
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I must be missing something you said you could buy 5,000WH of Lithium batteries for $ 1,300.

These 100 AH (1200 WH) cost $ 400 each. So, 4,800WH @ $ 1600? Close.

and as pointed out before a lot less maintenance...
https://www.amazon.com/JITA-Lithium-.../dp/B0922ZZK85

$1356 for 5120 Wh, however I would probably go for the Chins (same as Amperetime) at $1440 for the known build quality:

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batte...dp/B08FMTRYPT/

Not sure whats going on with lithium prices, they are dropping like rock, but I definitely feel for Battleborn who makes a superior product but the price difference is hard to swallow. At $360 for 100ah @ 12v its the same as buying a top tier Lifeline AGM and my current ones are ready to be replaced so will probably be doing LiFePo4 next.
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Old 09-27-2021, 08:53 PM   #105
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https://www.amazon.com/JITA-Lithium-.../dp/B0922ZZK85

$1356 for 5120 Wh, however I would probably go for the Chins (same as Amperetime) at $1440 for the known build quality:

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Batte...dp/B08FMTRYPT/

Not sure whats going on with lithium prices, they are dropping like rock, but I definitely feel for Battleborn who makes a superior product but the price difference is hard to swallow. At $360 for 100ah @ 12v its the same as buying a top tier Lifeline AGM and my current ones are ready to be replaced so will probably be doing LiFePo4 next.

Boy, you aren't kidding. I wonder if there is a Lithium surplus right now? Might be a good time to buy but I suspect we are going to see a LOT of new battery innovations and price competition over the next several years.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:38 AM   #106
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After 2 years with LiFePo4 batteries, I wouldn't even consider using LA batteries again. There is no comparison in performance or piece of mind.



And I bought a non name brand. When I had LA batteries I was almost always thinking about them while boondocking which we do about 30 days a year. It took a while to get used to them just working without any maintenance or even thinking about them. Life is way to short to think about LA batteries anymore. -Bill
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:43 AM   #107
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After 2 years with LiFePo4 batteries, I wouldn't even consider using LA batteries again. There is no comparison in performance or piece of mind.



And I bought a non name brand. When I had LA batteries I was almost always thinking about them while boondocking which we do about 30 days a year. It took a while to get used to them just working without any maintenance or even thinking about them. Life is way to short to think about LA batteries anymore. -Bill
Interesting to hear. We are ordering a trailer in the next 8 to 16 weeks. The manufacture has an option for LFP. Seriously thinking about going that way although we’ll probably only have it for 6 or 7 years. Thanks for the input.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:05 PM   #108
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Interesting to hear. We are ordering a trailer in the next 8 to 16 weeks. The manufacture has an option for LFP. Seriously thinking about going that way although we’ll probably only have it for 6 or 7 years. Thanks for the input.
It took only one trip with a LiFePO4 battery for me to reach the same conclusion. That battery is now in it’s third trailer.

Which manufacturer is offering these as an option?

It would be interesting to see how they implement them. Easiest way it to simply replace the FLA with no other modifications, but that may not really be the best choice. Often the converter is a long ways from the batteries, and the wires are thin. That means you may not be able to take advantage of the potential for fast charging. Also, the typical state-of-charge meter used with FLA (measures voltage) is not very effective due to the very flat voltage versus discharge curve of the LiFePO4 batteries. Many people prefer to put the batteries inside, too.

I am not suggesting that it is difficult or expensive to substitute the technology. It just takes some thought to take full advantage of it. My first setup simply replaced the FLA with a single lithium inside, and added a shunt to measure the battery status. I loved it, but could charge at only 25 amps. Now I have two batteries and a hybrid inverter and can charge at 75 amps.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:07 PM   #109
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The rated amp hour is based on a 5amp pull, that’s not much. If you use your battery for anything other than a few LED lights you are going over 5 amps. .....
Your science is good but you have failed to apply common sense.

Dry camping 101: If you are in the boondocks do not try to live like you are in the city.

For example, my electric coffee maker uses more than 5 amps from the battery.

My French press uses zero.

From 10 pm to 8 am my inverter is off. When I get up I make coffee with a French press. Takes the chill off and I do not have to run the furnace.

After I start the generator, I turn on the residential fridge, make toast, make a pot of coffee with electricity, use the microwave.

So 20% of the my day using less than 5 amps, 1% of the time more, and the rest of the time zero.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:10 PM   #110
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Host truck campers have lithium optons as well:


https://www.hostcampers.com/off-grid-packages/
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:31 PM   #111
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It took only one trip with a LiFePO4 battery for me to reach the same conclusion. That battery is now in it’s third trailer.

Which manufacturer is offering these as an option?

It would be interesting to see how they implement them. Easiest way it to simply replace the FLA with no other modifications, but that may not really be the best choice. Often the converter is a long ways from the batteries, and the wires are thin. That means you may not be able to take advantage of the potential for fast charging. Also, the typical state-of-charge meter used with FLA (measures voltage) is not very effective due to the very flat voltage versus discharge curve of the LiFePO4 batteries. Many people prefer to put the batteries inside, too.

I am not suggesting that it is difficult or expensive to substitute the technology. It just takes some thought to take full advantage of it. My first setup simply replaced the FLA with a single lithium inside, and added a shunt to measure the battery status. I loved it, but could charge at only 25 amps. Now I have two batteries and a hybrid inverter and can charge at 75 amps.
We are looking at a T@B 400 and pulling it with a medium sized SUV/CUV. This is new from T@B and although they haven’t indicated the brand of batterie yet they have indicated that they are now using a converter that is compatible with LFP batteries. Cool. A lot of our camping spots we plan to visit have powered sites but there are some that don’t have power. It will have 200 watts of solar on it but of course a lot of those unpowered sites are also treed, so not sure the solar is going to work well. Trying to avoid packing a generator. In a pinch we can always plug into the SUV I suppose.

Cheers.
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Old 09-28-2021, 01:20 PM   #112
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I agree that it depends on how you use your RV. I installed 13kwh LiFePo4 (built myself) and now I can run the air conditioner at the same time as the microwave for hours. Cost me just under $2k with the BMS. How much would that weigh with golf cart batteries? If I were just going from RV park to Rv park, I wouldn’t have bothered.

I think you are right about the usage being the key. So many campers now days are using rv parks all the time and will probably never need a lot of battery power. I'm one of them. Now that I'm late 70s I don't really want to boondock anymore. It seems like there are two different user needs groups here stating their cases in answering the OPs question. Probably 1% of campers need your setup even though it is a great one. Back to need, I think cost is really not the issue. If a person can actually afford their rv and the lifestyle, I'm sure they can afford the batteries for it. Just my view.
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