RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > RV SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGIES FORUMS > RV Systems & Appliances
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-05-2018, 08:07 PM   #1
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Lost power today-2010 Newmar Dutch Aire

This afternoon at about 4pm, while at a cg in Tx, we lost power to the coach for about 3-4 minutes before it came back on. It ran for another 3-4 minutes before shutting down again but this time it only stayed off for 15-20 seconds before coming back on and has been on since The progressive energy mgement system showed high ac voltage L-1. The power pedestal showed 124v on each leg so that apperars to be ok. At the time of occurrence, we were running (2) roof 15K dometic airs, 1 washer and dryer, traveler satellite dish and tv, 1 1200 volt ac element from the Oasis system plus a few misc lights, etc. If I was over extended on L-1, I thought the energy management system was supposed to shed items temporarily so this doesn't happed. Thoughts....
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-06-2018, 12:22 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Skip426's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 21,718
Ask around the park , particularly your neighbors , to see if anyone else is having power issues.

JMHO: 124 volts at the post in a park , that probably has multiple RVs running A/C units , sounds pretty high , and could easily spike to trigger the EMS into protect mode.
I don't have an EMS , just a surge guard , so I have to ask .
At what volts does your system shut down?

My understanding of the EMS system is that shedding takes place when the voltage available is drawn down to the LOW limit; the only way the EMS can protect the RV systems from high voltage is to shut down.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
Skip426 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:19 AM   #3
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
We are using a portable Surge Guard 50A which plugs into the power pedestal along with the Progressive Energy Management System installed in our MH. The Surge Guard will shut us down when voltage goes below 106v or 0ver 128-130 I believe. My thinking is we were running quite a bit of stuff when it happened but I'm still a little unsure as to the meaning of the Progressive Management System wording of High AC voltage on Line 1. Electricity is not and never has been my strong point.
BTW, no one on either side of use had any power issues at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
Ask around the park , particularly your neighbors , to see if anyone else is having power issues.

JMHO: 124 volts at the post in a park , that probably has multiple RVs running A/C units , sounds pretty high , and could easily spike to trigger the EMS into protect mode.
I don't have an EMS , just a surge guard , so I have to ask .
At what volts does your system shut down?

My understanding of the EMS system is that shedding takes place when the voltage available is drawn down to the LOW limit; the only way the EMS can protect the RV systems from high voltage is to shut down.
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2018, 09:43 PM   #4
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
We lost power again today about 9p. Had just arrived back to the MH and about 5 minutes or so after turning on the satellite and tv, the ac power went out for less than a minute, came back on for 10 seconds or so, went out again a second time, then came back on about 10-15 seconds late and stayed on. This time the Progressive EMS panel showed error message "PE-5- Line 2 voltage high-voltage above 132. Yesterday the error message was PE-3-Line 1 voltage high-Voltage above 132. Yesterday we were running quite a few more things at the time but tonight there was nothing big running. Matter of fact, I had just looked at the EMS readout screen and it showed L-1 (122v-3A) and L-2 (122v-3A) Any other ideas on possible causes folks?
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 12:19 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Props2's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: McHenry, Illinois
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC2 View Post
We lost power again today about 9p. Had just arrived back to the MH and about 5 minutes or so after turning on the satellite and tv, the ac power went out for less than a minute, came back on for 10 seconds or so, went out again a second time, then came back on about 10-15 seconds late and stayed on. This time the Progressive EMS panel showed error message "PE-5- Line 2 voltage high-voltage above 132. Yesterday the error message was PE-3-Line 1 voltage high-Voltage above 132. Yesterday we were running quite a few more things at the time but tonight there was nothing big running. Matter of fact, I had just looked at the EMS readout screen and it showed L-1 (122v-3A) and L-2 (122v-3A) Any other ideas on possible causes folks?
This sounds like a park problem. I believe some of these places adjust the voltage taps up on their systems to handle the heavy ac loads during all these warm temps. Heavy loads drop voltage. If the gc empty's out,voltage goes up. Then again,it could be the utility provider switching loads on the lines. Heck, it could be a whole host of things. I think your Progressive is doing what it's suppose to do,dropping out on high voltage. There should be a time delay before re-energizing when voltage returns to normal so you dont get cycling. I think 10 or 15 seconds, I dont remember. If you have a true energy management system,that would monitor an overload condition. These are usually built in to your house breaker panel and when you start maxing out your 50a, it senses and starts shedding prioritized loads. I hope any of this can shed some light. I would not rely the neighbors unless they have some proof that they have stable voltage. They may be frying as we speak. This is also a great argument for a Hughs Autotransformer to stabilize your incoming power.
__________________
2015 Tiffin Phaeton 40QKH All Electric
2015 Dodge Ram Laramie 4x4
Mark and Lori
Props2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:03 AM   #6
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Thanks Props

The people on both sides supposedly have surge/management stuff and have not
did not lose power when we did last night and the day before. Just for grins and giggles, I'm going to ask the office to let me move to another spot. They did check the voltage input the first time we had an issue and it shoed 124 v coming in.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Props2 View Post
This sounds like a park problem. I believe some of these places adjust the voltage taps up on their systems to handle the heavy ac loads during all these warm temps. Heavy loads drop voltage. If the gc empty's out,voltage goes up. Then again,it could be the utility provider switching loads on the lines. Heck, it could be a whole host of things. I think your Progressive is doing what it's suppose to do,dropping out on high voltage. There should be a time delay before re-energizing when voltage returns to normal so you dont get cycling. I think 10 or 15 seconds, I dont remember. If you have a true energy management system,that would monitor an overload condition. These are usually built in to your house breaker panel and when you start maxing out your 50a, it senses and starts shedding prioritized loads. I hope any of this can shed some light. I would not rely the neighbors unless they have some proof that they have stable voltage. They may be frying as we speak. This is also a great argument for a Hughs Autotransformer to stabilize your incoming power.
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:16 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Bobb.25's Avatar
 
Rexhall Owners Group
Join Date: May 2011
Location: South Central Ohio
Posts: 457
An electrician should check the connections in the pedestal, especially the neutral.
When a voltage goes very much above nominal, a loose, or corroded neutral is many times the culprit. It is supposed to anchor the midpoint of the 120/240 volt system to ground voltage, however when a neutral is not available to do that, it floats, and when a load is placed on one side of the system, the voltage to it drops, and the other side rises.
BobbtheEE
__________________
2003 Rexhall Rexair, 3550 Ford V10 with Banks
2014 Honda CRV-AWD via Blue Ox
Travel with SWMBO and Golden Doodle co pilot
Bobb.25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2018, 08:26 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
gatorcq's Avatar
 
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Foothills, Yuma, Az
Posts: 1,124
The system, stated the issue. High AC Voltage.
Your surge guard did it job based on it's internal settings.
Your EMS, does it job when NOT enough voltage or current (30 Vs 50 amps).

I bet if you read your owners manual it would tell you this.

Another item, did you notice, other units that did not HAVE a surge guard or progressive system. They did not experience your issue and went about life happily.

Being in the electrical and electronics area, I have sometimes turn my Progressive off due to high AC voltage. Meaning 130 VAC. many people will gasped at this. However, if you know your equipment and have worked on them for many years (40+). You would understand. The only real AC items are compressors, internal and external fan motors (A/C units). Electric heating elements. These items are tested at a higher voltage then what they state in the specifications. Most if all others items use a AC to DC converter, including but not limited to TV's, laptops, satellite, Inverter/charger systems.

As a side note, my Magnum PSW, will operate down to 48 VAC, with no problems. This is stated inside the manufacturer's specification.

Enjoy life.
__________________
Dale&Susan, 08 Alfa Gold, DaGirlsRv Blog
2015 F-150XLT_2000W Solar_600 AmpHr Lithium
Magnum_MSH 3012 & PT100
gatorcq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 07:09 PM   #9
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Update. I disconnected my 10yr old 50A portable Surge Guard from the pedestal today after discussions with several other members of our rally group at the cg. Many felt that it was not needed since I already had the built-I Progressive built in system and being my portable system was 10yrs old, it has been used heavily in that time and "might" be starting to have problems. The parks incoming power to my pedestal was checked and found to be 124v along with several on each side of me. The power coming from the Portable Surge Guard was jumping up and down when tested. "Knock on wood" but there have been "ZERO" problems since disconnecting it. Kind of reminds me of the problems when running (2) anti-virus systems on a pc at the same time. Keeping my fingers crossed for now.
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 09:27 AM   #10
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Well no joy. Last night starting at around 5-5:30p-7p, the mh lost all "ac" power on 3 occasions at the receptacles inside but the roof airs kept running????? Error message shows PE-7 (line frequency high)-line frequency above 69 cycles per second. The first & second time this crap started again yesterday, I shut off all breakers on the ac side and inverter side then waited several minutes before turning everyone back on. Ac powered up each time but then shut sown gain after minutes. Finally gave up and ran the gennie all night without incident. Friend who used to work at the Cummins Onan/Spartan service center is supposed to stop by today after work. This is beginning to rally suck big time...
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 11:19 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
falconman's Avatar


 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the Road
Posts: 1,198
Lost power today-2010 Newmar Dutch Aire

Have you checked for loose connections inside the transfer switch? Perhaps a loose neutral on the shore power input might be causing frequency fluctuations. Im no electrician but thats what I experienced but on the generator side.
__________________
Dan & Arlene
2005 Monaco Dynasty Diamond IV
Chasing the good weather
falconman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2018, 07:34 PM   #12
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconman View Post
Have you checked for loose connections inside the transfer switch? Perhaps a loose neutral on the shore power input might be causing frequency fluctuations. I’m no electrician but that’s what I experienced but on the generator side.
Inside of the transfer switch box and the Progressive EMS box, 5-6 connections were maybe 1/4 turn from being tight. Additionally, the small computer board inside the Progressive EMS system box apparently is known to fail/become less than reliable possibly causing issues similar to mine. The 50A power cord plug from the MH will be replaced along with the items just mentioned as the prongs that plug in are corroded, loose and have obviously gotten hot in the past. I sure don't remember these types of fun things happening when we started "tent" camping 25 yrs ago.
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2018, 06:07 PM   #13
JC2
Senior Member
 
JC2's Avatar
 
Newmar Owners Club
Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mo/Texas
Posts: 3,496
Update: On Friday 09/21/18, I ordered a new Progressive Dynamic EMS 50A hardwired and a new Progressive Dynamic PD52 Auto Transfer Switch 50a. Today, both were installed between 10:30a-1:00p. In the next 30-25 minutes, I incurred (2) brief shutdowns of ac power with the first showing no error code and the second showing an error code of PE-7-(Line Frequency High-67Hz)should be 60Hz +- 1-2.
At 2:45p another brief 15-30 second shutdown/reboot of ac power with an error code of PE-5(L-2 High Voltage)
At 5:25p another brief 15-30 second shutdown/reboot with and error message of PE-5(L-2 High Voltage).
Right after the install completion at 1p, the incoming voltage from the park was checked with a "Fluke" brand meter and found to be stable @ 119-120 range. A few minutes later, several temp spikes were noted: 128v 129v 131.5v etc but then settled back to the 19-120 range. This is really starting to tick me off.
__________________
2010 Newmar Dutch Aire DP 4304-Cummins ISL 425hp-Spartan MM Chassis-2013 Chev Equinox AWD-Ready Brute Elite Towing System-FMCA 402879-SKP 120487
JC2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2018, 09:25 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Props2's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: McHenry, Illinois
Posts: 200
What a PITA! Nothing worse than throwing money at a problem. I assume they moved you to a new location and still having the same problem??

I will say, one shot voltage measurements are for the most part useless for problems like this. A data logger would give a complete evaluation, but you would need the service of an electrical contractor for that. Not cheap either but the voltage/current/frequency trends would show themselves clearly over a period of time,say 4 to 6 hours.

I have installed Progressive system in my coach and it has been flawless. Maybe you can plug into your neighbors "good power" for several hours and see if it continues.
__________________
2015 Tiffin Phaeton 40QKH All Electric
2015 Dodge Ram Laramie 4x4
Mark and Lori
Props2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
air, newmar, power



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Newmar King Aire vs Newmar Mountain Aire Mr Goodbar Newmar Owner's Forum 12 05-24-2017 11:40 AM
Newmar Dutch Aire 2010 electrical issue jilleen10 Newmar Owner's Forum 15 11-17-2015 04:19 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.