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Old 07-30-2007, 11:58 AM   #1
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Hey folks, I searched "inverters" in this forum and read through them all, but still didn't see what I was looking for. If this has been answered somewhere else, I'll gladly take the rudder steer.

1. Electrician installed a 50a outlet at my house. Works great but did experience an "ah shoot" (or variation thereof) in the process. C/B for microwave on the inverter's output side popped, as did a 20a C/B on the main panel inside. Got that sickening electrical pungent smell . . . you know the one.

Results, everything works, 'ceptin' my microwave. Measured 119v at the outlet above it, but nada. Won't beep, weep, belch, or growl. I'm suspecting the worse. Any thoughts out there?

2. Was watching DVD in the coach with the kids (post electric smell) with the 50a hooked up. Inverter decided it's done and poof . . . entertainment center died. All the 12v stuff still works but I put a volt check on the batteries and found out I have 2 X 6v (in series) and 1 X 12v. Results: Both 6v's were down to 5.1v but the 12v was still above . . well, 12v. I'm thinking the inverter sensed low volts on the 2 six volt batteries and shut all inverter service off. Thoughts?

3. Other than the microwave (still steamin' about that one), I'm thinking I need two new batteries. Could I ditch the 2 six volts and get 2 new twelve volts?
a. Where is a good place to get RV batts?
b. Would you buy wet,gel, or AGM?

That's enough for now and look forward to the "seasoned" responses I know you all will share.

Thank you in advance,
Wes in Murrieta, CA
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:58 AM   #2
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Hey folks, I searched "inverters" in this forum and read through them all, but still didn't see what I was looking for. If this has been answered somewhere else, I'll gladly take the rudder steer.

1. Electrician installed a 50a outlet at my house. Works great but did experience an "ah shoot" (or variation thereof) in the process. C/B for microwave on the inverter's output side popped, as did a 20a C/B on the main panel inside. Got that sickening electrical pungent smell . . . you know the one.

Results, everything works, 'ceptin' my microwave. Measured 119v at the outlet above it, but nada. Won't beep, weep, belch, or growl. I'm suspecting the worse. Any thoughts out there?

2. Was watching DVD in the coach with the kids (post electric smell) with the 50a hooked up. Inverter decided it's done and poof . . . entertainment center died. All the 12v stuff still works but I put a volt check on the batteries and found out I have 2 X 6v (in series) and 1 X 12v. Results: Both 6v's were down to 5.1v but the 12v was still above . . well, 12v. I'm thinking the inverter sensed low volts on the 2 six volt batteries and shut all inverter service off. Thoughts?

3. Other than the microwave (still steamin' about that one), I'm thinking I need two new batteries. Could I ditch the 2 six volts and get 2 new twelve volts?
a. Where is a good place to get RV batts?
b. Would you buy wet,gel, or AGM?

That's enough for now and look forward to the "seasoned" responses I know you all will share.

Thank you in advance,
Wes in Murrieta, CA
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Old 07-30-2007, 12:23 PM   #3
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I think the microwave has a fuse inside. Check your microwave manual. Two 6 volt battries have more stored amp HRS. than 12volt.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:03 PM   #4
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Be sure to check that both legs of your 50 amp service are live at 115 volts. You could have one leg out and that could be the leg that the microwave is connected to. Many things in the motorhome may work even when one leg is out. An easy way to check if your 50 amp service from the house has one leg out is to turn on your generator. If the microwave then works I would suspect your shore power cord, connection or wiring.

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Old 07-30-2007, 02:36 PM   #5
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"Got that sickening electrical pungent smell . . . you know the one."

Wish I was there with my meter as I'm a master electrician. Having said that my comments follow.

Wow, "electrical smell" means there was smoke and smoke is a bad thing. You would only get that condition if something was very wrong. I would have the new 50A source checked for correct wireing before I reset breakers and gave it another shot.

Your RV electronics could cost mega-bucks to replace if damaged.

Let us know what you find.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:56 PM   #6
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Please be careful before proceeding here. There are some things that you need to verify. When you say the "microwave" circuit breaker, exactly where is this breaker located? On my 2005 Dolphin, that breaker is located in a sub panel under the passenger seat near the inverter charger. However, that sub panel is NOT supplied by the inverter unless you have the hi-power (2000watt) inverter. I suspect that you do not have that unit as it is usually accompanied by four six volt batteries instead of two.
In the low power inverter system, those breakers in that sub panel are fed directly from a 20amp breaker in the main panel. If, in fact, you have the hipower version, then those breakers are fed from the output of the inverter.
But it sounds to me as if the microwave itself may have failed causing the breaker in the sub panel to trip as well as the 20 amp breaker feeding the sub panel. In this situation, the breaker with the lowest amp rating should have tripped first, but the failure mode could have been so catastrophic that both breakers tripped.
Now that I have you as well as myself totally confused, let me consult my drawings from NRV and then I may have a couple more ideas. I would go one more step further and say that the fact that you have low voltage on the 6 volt system would lead me to believe that your inverter/charger is not getting power and therefore not charging the batteries.
Those heavy 6 volt batteries are available from Sam's club and used everywhere for golf carts. The choice of battery type is judged by the depth of your wallet.

Let me look at my drawings and see if I can come up with some other ideas for you to try to isolate this problem. I think I would leave it disconnected from the 50amp connector for the time being. The suggestion to check it on the generator will tell you if the inverter charger is working. When you bring up the generator, it should automatically power the I/C and the voltage on the 6 volt batteries should immediately go to close to 7 volts. There are also some indicator lights on the I/C that tells what mode it is in. I am assuming, of course, that you have the Xantrex I/C .
Considering the problems here, I think your best bet would be to consult with the factory. They will send you the drawings of all that stuff if you ask.
I had some problems in this area and took it to a local service center(authorized) and they fouled it up so bad, I had to fix it myself. This was the NRV dealer in Ft.Worth, TX.
I know I have rambled on and on here but your post does not have enough detail to really pin this down, but I will be glad to try.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:38 PM   #7
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Here's another thought. It is very possible that the new 50amp connector was miswired and you put 220 across the microwave and the inverter/charger.
What you can try with the microwave would be to drag a good extension cord from the house and see if the thing will work when plugged in there. You don't need to "cook", just see if the clock and the menu lights come on.
You stated that the entertainment power went off and that is all fed through the inverter/charger. The ac power to the entertainment center is all run though the inverter/charger. When the ac power is not connected, the inverter will run the entertainment gear. That switch automatically as long as the batteries are good enough.
Once again, I am basing this on the wiring my 2005 Dolphin. I doubt that it has changed much in 2006.
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Old 07-30-2007, 04:50 PM   #8
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Don't you think it would be a good idea to disconnect the coach from the plug until someone measures the voltage to make sure nothing is miswired? Someone mentioned earlier that the smell of smoke is never something that should occur unless something really bad happened.
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Old 07-30-2007, 05:44 PM   #9
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very good advice mrsschwarz
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:08 PM   #10
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THIS WEB SITE explains 30a and 50a service clearly, and the pictures are worth a thousand words.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:39 PM   #11
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Its best you disconnect every thing and lets start a new. Take a 110v outlet from house and connect to your service line to coach. Than check every item one at a time converter, micro, TV, refridge and what ever else you had on, in that way you will find out what is fried hopefully nothing.
I'll short cut this down to RV Systems and Appliances forum the RV Wizard should pick this up. I wouldn't hook up that 50 amp tonight. Just check and see what is still working you may have to check your load center for pop ckt brakers.
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Old 07-30-2007, 06:41 PM   #12
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Man, I'd hate to count the years of knowledge here. Thank you much. I'm going to try to answer all your questions and comment on yours as best I can.

Using 10 gauge 3-wire the electrician plugged the coach into a 50a plug with a 50a to 30a to 110v adapters still attached. ie. 50a plugs on both ends but with the step down in the middle.

1. Both legs are live at 119v. Cross checks out as well at 220v.
2. Genny power makes no difference to the micro.
3. The 20a is on the main panel by the shower door. The "microwave" labeled breaker is 15a and located in the same space as the 1000w I/C (yes, it's a Xantrex) which is just below the passenger seat.
4. The I/C lights indicate normal operation with no backfeed or otherwise; and are successfully keeping the 12v powered up.
5. No impact on the micro dragging the an ext cord out to the appliance. It's dead.

I'd like to know more about this "fuse" inside the micro. My manual doesn't mention it (that I can find) and I'd sure like to check it out.

Hope this helps you help me. Appreciate the tips and I'll be gettin' a couple new 6 volts straight away.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:01 AM   #13
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Kernel, what make and model of microwave do you have? Is it an over the range model or a built in? If it is a built in you will need to completely remove the microwave to access the screws holding the skin on and then acces the fuse. If it is an over the range microwave you should be able to remove the top vent cover and then a screw on the top of the control escushion. you will now need to work the panel up slightly and then off. Be very careful inside these microwaves as the high volt capacitor can hold a mean charge and if you short it out with your body it will hurt you. Let me know what you find and I will try to help.
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Old 07-31-2007, 04:10 AM   #14
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Kernel,
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Using 10 gauge 3-wire the electrician plugged the coach into a 50a plug with a 50a to 30a to 110v adapters still attached. ie. 50a plugs on both ends but with the step down in the middle.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't understand this. If there is a 50amp receptacle in the house, why not just connect your rv power cord to that receptacle? I don't get the use of all the adapters....Typically, those adapters cross tie one leg to both circuits in the motor home.
It sounds like your set up is the same as mine or at least close. I found that the circuit breaker box located near the shower door was never labeled at all. So I labeled this box by using one of those little outlet testers that verifies the correct wiring at the outlets. I just turned off all the breakers and then put them back on one at a time and found the hot circuits by plugging the tester into them one at a time. Then I labeled them myself. A couple of breakers will be hard to find as they use one breaker for the hot water heater and another for the washer/dryer outlet which can be hard to find if your rig does not have a W/D. Also, two of the breakers will be for the A/C heat pump.

After I got the drawings from NRV, I found two wiring errors or differences which NRV could not explain. The reality is that no one ever checks this stuff at the factory. If it doesn't burn up when they power it up, then it is assumed to be wired correctly!!!!!One of the circuits that was wired wrong was the M-wave. It was wired to the outlet over the sink but the drawings showed that it was supposed to be wired to a breaker by itself. To make matters worse, the outlet over the sink is a GFCI and when it tripped, there was no power at the m-wave. I am still trying to figure out how to change that. You should also locate all of those GFCI outlets. The one in the bathroom controls the outlet in the basement compartment by the entrance door.

It seems as though your m-wave has died. You might want to consult a dealer for the brand you have to see if there is a "user fuse". I had to remove my oven for a repair ,of course, right after the warranty expired. Getting it out was a two person job and required the disassembly of the overhead cabinet just to get to the two long screws that hold the front of the unit up. Basically, it uses the same type of mount as home unit. There is a large mounting plate fastened to the wall that engages the rear clip on the m-wave allowing it to swing downward and the top front is secured through the frame of the upper cabinet. I had to remove the flooring of the cabinet to get to those two screws. Of course, that flooring was secured to the frame with air powered staples and it was quite a job getting them all pulled loose just to get to those two screws. Then after we got it out, the factory tech determined the problem was low line voltage caused but one of those cheap 110 volt rv outlets. I replaced it with a heavy duty duplex outlet from the home store and the problem was solved.
I am still concerned about your low battery voltage. Have you checked the water in them? If the I/C is truly working, the voltage across those two batteries should be close to 13.7 volts. This voltage should also be the same on the engine battery. The I/C charges both batteries when it is running. If those batteries are just a year old, they "should" not be faulty.
Hope this helps
Kent
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