Norcold fridge inop on battery power

[Jay in TX]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

I know just looking at the fuses is not 100% effective, but I have not found anything labeled as a fridge fuse so I just looked at each fuse I found over 15 amps.

The High Current feed for the fridge DC Element should be a 30A or higher depending on wire size/length of run


Here is a Troubleshooting Guide I found for the N3000 Series
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/17...page=21#manual

Here are the high current leads running into this connector. Red and White just like your schematic, but they are not connected to anything.

[Old-Biscuit]

OK....
The large RED would be HC +
The large WHITE would be HC-

Small Orange would be the Engine Run +


Wish I could fine a Picture of the Circuit Board so I could see the actual terminals/connections

With Engine ON that Orange Terminal should be Hot...12VDC +
If it isn't you need to locate the source where it comes from
W/O Schematic I couldn't guess

When Orange is HOT then the large RED should be HOT

From that connector......
You need a small wire from Orange to circuit board for Engine Run Signal
You need a Large Wire from RED to circuit board/20A fuse/to DC Element
From the DC Element you need a Large Wire to the WHITE connector
DC element should have leads ....hanging loose---not connected???
**You have checked that you HAVE a DC Element (Next to AC Element)?

If you could ...take a picture of circuit board
Straight on if possible

Also....you said you have the wiring schematics for your RV
12VDC for fridge power??

[Jay in TX]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

OK....
The large RED would be HC +
The large WHITE would be HC-

Small Orange would be the Engine Run +


Wish I could fine a Picture of the Circuit Board so I could see the actual terminals/connections

With Engine ON that Orange Terminal should be Hot...12VDC +
If it isn't you need to locate the source where it comes from
W/O Schematic I couldn't guess

When Orange is HOT then the large RED should be HOT

From that connector......
You need a small wire from Orange to circuit board for Engine Run Signal
You need a Large Wire from RED to circuit board/20A fuse/to DC Element
From the DC Element you need a Large Wire to the WHITE connector
DC element should have leads ....hanging loose---not connected???
**You have checked that you HAVE a DC Element (Next to AC Element)?

If you could ...take a picture of circuit board
Straight on if possible

Also....you said you have the wiring schematics for your RV
12VDC for fridge power??

OK, I am attaching several photos. The problem as I see it, is there are 5 terminals on one side of the white connector, but only two wires on the other side. The two wires that are there go to LC+ and LC-. There is nothing connected to the two HC wires or the orange engine run wire. It looks to me like someone forgot to install the wiring harness.

I don't know what the DC element looks like, so I don't know if it is there or not and I can't see up inside the fridge too well.

I do not have the schematic for the chassis wiring to the fridge, but I am going to be calling Fleetwood tomorrow.

[Jay in TX]

more photos

[shellback2]

Jay,
I’ve been following your progress and it sure looks like your high current 12 volt wiring was never connected or never was installed. Looked at my Navion installation and it has a mating connector with the LC +, LC- , HC+, HC- and engine run signal wire. I’ll try to include a picture. I’ve not sure how to do that so if I’m not able I’ll try to be as descriptive as I can. The HC + and minus look like 12 Guage wire connected to my power panel with a 20 amp fuse. The minus goes to the ground strip. I’m not sure where the engine run wire is connected. The Winnebago wiring that I have does not show this information. I suspect that it may go to the fuel pump relay or something similar that would activate only when the engine is running. That wire is perhaps 16 guage and probably does not carry much current.
I tried to include a picture with no success. I have to figure out how to do that.

I hope that this may help

John

[Jay in TX]

Originally Posted by shellback2

Jay,
I’ve been following your progress and it sure looks like your high current 12 volt wiring was never connected or never was installed. Looked at my Navion installation and it has a mating connector with the LC +, LC- , HC+, HC- and engine run signal wire. I’ll try to include a picture. I’ve not sure how to do that so if I’m not able I’ll try to be as descriptive as I can. The HC + and minus look like 12 Guage wire connected to my power panel with a 20 amp fuse. The minus goes to the ground strip. I’m not sure where the engine run wire is connected. The Winnebago wiring that I have does not show this information. I suspect that it may go to the fuel pump relay or something similar that would activate only when the engine is running. That wire is perhaps 16 guage and probably does not carry much current.
I tried to include a picture with no success. I have to figure out how to do that.

I hope that this may help

John

Hello John,

Yes, your description does help me and confirms my diagnosis that I am missing the wiring harness going from that plug to the rest of the RV. I cannot imagine why Fleetwood would only install half of the plug and then connect two spade terminals and nothing else. I sent them an email last night, so I'm waiting to get their response. Thanks again and I'll let you know once I get an answer.

[Old-Biscuit]

Jay

Thanks for the pictures.....
I was under the impression that the CONNECTOR was wired from RV and wiring to circuit board was missing

Your fridge circuit board has ALL the necessary wiring
The Large BLUE wires go to the DC Heater Element
The Large BLACK wires go to the AC Heater Element

You ARE missing the Engine RUN wire and the HC+/HC- wires that come from your RV to THAT fridge connector plug

YES...your RV was never wired for the DC Heater Element (3-way) operation
Fridge is set up for 3-way but RV wiring was NOT installed to allow 3-way operation of fridge

Maybe 3-way fridge is 'standard' but your Pulse wasn't optioned for 3-way just an electric/propane (2-way) hence no HC or Engine Run wiring installed

[Jay in TX]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Jay

Thanks for the pictures.....
I was under the impression that the CONNECTOR was wired from RV and wiring to circuit board was missing

Your fridge circuit board has ALL the necessary wiring
The Large BLUE wires go to the DC Heater Element
The Large BLACK wires go to the AC Heater Element

You ARE missing the Engine RUN wire and the HC+/HC- wires that come from your RV to THAT fridge connector plug

YES...your RV was never wired for the DC Heater Element (3-way) operation
Fridge is set up for 3-way but RV wiring was NOT installed to allow 3-way operation of fridge

Maybe 3-way fridge is 'standard' but your Pulse wasn't optioned for 3-way just an electric/propane (2-way) hence no HC or Engine Run wiring installed

I guess the question now is..... Would Fleetwood really be cheap enough to not include the plug and three wires just to save a very few cents and only make the fridge operate as a two-way? I have sent them an email and I received a response that they are researching it so I will wait to see what they say. I will wire it up myself if they decline to help.

Thanks for all your help Biscuit! You are a great resource and really know your stuff!

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by Jay in TX

I guess the question now is..... Would Fleetwood really be cheap enough to not include the plug and three wires just to save a very few cents and only make the fridge operate as a two-way? I have sent them an email and I received a response that they are researching it so I will wait to see what they say. I will wire it up myself if they decline to help.

Thanks for all your help Biscuit! You are a great resource and really know your stuff!

Believe Old Biscuit is right, I have a 3 way fridge in my Tiffin Wayfarer, with a battery setting on the eyebrow. When I tried it, got a code saying no battery power. Called Tiffin and they said they did not install 12 volt heating elements or wiring because the fridge 120 volt heaters are connected to inverter and thus batteries or sp/gen,, so it was not necessary.

[Jay in TX]

Well, I finally received a response to my email to Fleetwood and they advise that my RV was only set-up to run on AC or propane, but not on DC. I guess that tells me how cheap they are. For the cost of some wire and a plug, they have reduced the functionality of the vehicle to save a very few pennies.

This two-way set-up uses propane when the engine is running instead of running the fridge from the engine alternator and battery. The difference is it costs money to fill the propane and I need propane for other purposes.

The other thing that concerns me about the way Fleetwood installed that plug is that they used two uninsulated spade connectors side by side (one 12v positive and the other negative) that if they touch together, they will short-out and could start a fire. Very bad engineering!

I plan to install the necessary wiring myself to make it work as a 3-way fridge and I'll make a post to let others know if it works. Thanks again for everyone's help!

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by Jay in TX

Well, I finally received a response to my email to Fleetwood and they advise that my RV was only set-up to run on AC or propane, but not on DC. I guess that tells me how cheap they are. For the cost of some wire and a plug, they have reduced the functionality of the vehicle to save a very few pennies.

This two-way set-up uses propane when the engine is running instead of running the fridge from the engine alternator and battery. The difference is it costs money to fill the propane and I need propane for other purposes.

The other thing that concerns me about the way Fleetwood installed that plug is that they used two uninsulated spade connectors side by side (one 12v positive and the other negative) that if they touch together, they will short-out and could start a fire. Very bad engineering!

I plan to install the necessary wiring myself to make it work as a 3-way fridge and I'll make a post to let others know if it works. Thanks again for everyone's help!

If you have an inverter, and the alternator charges the house batteries, you can achieve the same thing. I have two batteries in my sprinter and they will run my 5 cf fridge for several hours without the engine running. For overnight, I switch to propane of course.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Jay in TX

Well, I finally received a response to my email to Fleetwood and they advise that my RV was only set-up to run on AC or propane, but not on DC. I guess that tells me how cheap they are. For the cost of some wire and a plug, they have reduced the functionality of the vehicle to save a very few pennies.

This two-way set-up uses propane when the engine is running instead of running the fridge from the engine alternator and battery. The difference is it costs money to fill the propane and I need propane for other purposes.

The other thing that concerns me about the way Fleetwood installed that plug is that they used two uninsulated spade connectors side by side (one 12v positive and the other negative) that if they touch together, they will short-out and could start a fire. Very bad engineering!

I plan to install the necessary wiring myself to make it work as a 3-way fridge and I'll make a post to let others know if it works. Thanks again for everyone's help!

Just as I suspected.....Norcold supplied a 3-way fridge with ALL the necessary wiring/components BUT Fleetwood only wired it for 2-way functions.
*Why order a 3-way to begin with

Defies Logic

Here is more info about the N3000 Series (Norcold doesn't provide much in the way of specs...ARP provides some)
https://www.arprv.com/norcold-n3104.php

Can't find burner btu specs but for that size of fridge
Burner/orifice is going to be only 1050btu range (per hour of burner time)
1 gal of propane is rated at 91,500btu
Fridge is NOT a big consumer of propane

AC Heater Element is 300W (#690859 *replaces the 636868)
Can't find specs on DC Heater Element but they are typically 1/2 wattage of AC as they are ONLY used to 'maintain' fridge cooling while in transit (Hence the Engine Run signal)
DC Element #636867

Post back when you get the necessary wiring/fusing done.
Would be interested in your 'project'

[shellback2]

Hi Jay,
It’s a shame that an RV manufacturer would intentionally defeat one of the operating modes of the refrigerator. I can see the argument on using 120 volts from the inverter, assuming that your rig is equipped with one and the operation is fully automatic.
When the system is hooked up correctly and in the automatic mode. It will default to 120 volt AC power when available. When 120 volt power is not available it will default to gas operation. It automatically goes to 12 volt operation when the engine runs when not plugged into 120 volts. I have found this to be a very useful to not have to be concerned about switching modes manually while traveling. I don’t know if the automatic switching function will operate if the 12 volt circuits are not connected.

You had expressed concern with the spade connectors being loose and not properly in a mating connector. If you have any difficulty with finding the proper connector you might try Lichtsinn motors in Iowa. They are a Winnebago dealer with a big parts department and known to be helpful. The 3150 refrigerator was used in the view/Navion models up to 2018. The connector looks like a molex type and should be available from electrical or industrial suppliers also.

John

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by shellback2

Hi Jay,
It’s a shame that an RV manufacturer would intentionally defeat one of the operating modes of the refrigerator. I can see the argument on using 120 volts from the inverter, assuming that your rig is equipped with one and the operation is fully automatic.
When the system is hooked up correctly and in the automatic mode. It will default to 120 volt AC power when available. When 120 volt power is not available it will default to gas operation. It automatically goes to 12 volt operation when the engine runs when not plugged into 120 volts. I have found this to be a very useful to not have to be concerned about switching modes manually while traveling. I don’t know if the automatic switching function will operate if the 12 volt circuits are not connected.

You had expressed concern with the spade connectors being loose and not properly in a mating connector. If you have any difficulty with finding the proper connector you might try Lichtsinn motors in Iowa. They are a Winnebago dealer with a big parts department and known to be helpful. The 3150 refrigerator was used in the view/Navion models up to 2018. The connector looks like a molex type and should be available from electrical or industrial suppliers also.

John

YES OPs fridge will still Swap Heat sources when in AUTO Mode
AC has priority when available
No AC ...controls will try to swap to DC but W/O DC it will swap to LP Operation
Fridge Controls, Display, Functions are via the 12VDC (LC+/- wiring)