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Old 01-10-2016, 08:19 PM   #15
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funny how many people had the same problem... when i tried and erred, i decided stopping using the traditional method to change it. i had had a mityvac for years for my car oil/trans fluid change, so i just simply sucked the genset oil out, like how boaters do. never need to bother with the drain plug since.

this is the same one as i have Amazon.com: Mityvac 7400 7.3 Liter Fluid Evacuator: Automotive
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Old 01-11-2016, 04:35 AM   #16
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Breaker bars, long handle wrenches, are the normal method of removing "any" super tight nut,bolt or plug. Problems start when the tool used dose not stay square to the fastener. Ounce you start to round the corners of the fitting you get into deep trouble. Socket extensions and breaker combination tend to cause the mechanic to go off square easily so you have to be careful. Just sayin.

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Old 01-11-2016, 05:19 AM   #17
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funny how many people had the same problem... when i tried and erred, i decided stopping using the traditional method to change it. i had had a mityvac for years for my car oil/trans fluid change, so i just simply sucked the genset oil out, like how boaters do. never need to bother with the drain plug since.

this is the same one as i have Amazon.com: Mityvac 7400 7.3 Liter Fluid Evacuator: Automotive
While this is a handy tool for boaters I prefer to drain the oil. I warm the engine then pull the plug and leave it out until all the old oil is completely drained along with any sludge which lays on the bottom. This is a drawback to pumping the oil out through a small tube.
Boaters have to use the pump as they have no access to the drain plug under the engine or room to put a drain pan under the engine.
Lynn
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:30 AM   #18
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You'd be surprised how many vehicles get towed in when DIY'ers try to remove over tightened oil filters. Lots of times the tin can is shredded and only the threaded plate is left. CLIFF

Clifford, I wouldn't be surprised if the same shop that did a oil change on my car had worked on it! I was in a hurry, so went to one of those national name brand oil change change places. I caught the "mechanic" going under the car with an oil filter wrench . . . . with the NEW filter! I stopped him and asked him what he was doing. His reply was that you "had to use an oil filter wrench to put the filter back on, how else would you install it?" Told him to go back to mechanics school, got under the car, and put the filter on properly, by hand.

The manager jumped on me about being in the work area . . . I pointed out what his mechanic had been about to do. He asked me what my mechanical training was. I told him I was a Certified Aviation Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic. He suddenly got very nice and I got a serious discount on my oil change.

I've never had a problem taking off an oil filter that I installed. I've also never had a leak in one that I installed. . . .
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:55 AM   #19
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Hit The Road,

You are absolutely correct on the oil filter. That's what I taught for 35 years.

STEP 1. Spin the filter on by hand until the gasket hits the block.
Now either mark the filter with a magic marker of find something on the filter to identify where it is.

STEP 2. Continue tightening the filter by HAND 3/4 to 1 full turn.

STOP!! it is as tight as it needs to be. I never had a filter that I put on that I couldn't remove by hand at the next oil and filter change interval and they never leaked.

As far as the oil drain plug. As mentioned always use a 6-point socket. I would add use a 6-point IMPACT socket. They are usually closer in tolerance, less likely to be worn and will therefore fit better.

I also liked the idea of grinding the end flat in special situations so you have more of the socket around the nut.

USE the impact wrench. That imparts a shocking effect which works great.

Just pulling harder with bigger tools or cheater bars does not work as well as the impact. WHY??? When you pull slowly the metal has time to heat up which makes it more susceptible to distortion due to that heat.

That's why they developed the tubing wrench which has 5 sides instead of just two. When working on any tubing fitting (brake or fuel line) the tubing wrench slips over the metal line. You can't get anything but an open ended wrench on the fitting or a tubing wrench.

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Old 01-11-2016, 10:19 AM   #20
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IF you do not have an impact tool and the threads are starting to get dicey you can use a good Vice Grip. I mean grap it good. Then use a small pipe around the handle to extend it a bit. Now do not put too much pressure on it. Tap the head of the plug with a hammer while applying pressure. Again, do not get crazy.

I agree with a tiny bit of heat from the tip of a torch on the plug. Again, not a lot. The tiny bit of expansion and contraction when it cools might do the trick. Of course let it cool so it shrinks.

I have a tiny torch that works great for these kinds of things. I can center the flame on the nut or bolt head.
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:40 AM   #21
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STEP 2. Continue tightening the filter by HAND 3/4 to 1 full turn.


TeJay
WHAT !!!!! I thought that meant 3 or 4 turns and 1 more for good measure :? :?
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:43 AM   #22
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STEP 2. Continue tightening the filter by HAND 3/4 to 1 full turn.
hmmm... it might work for small cars (let's say you can turn that much by hands) but doubtful on big engines like cummins isc... according to fleetgard oil filter LF9009 that i am using, illustrated with clear graphics on the housing, it should be hand tightened to the max you can, then use a filter wrench to tighten further 3/4 turns. there is a pressure built up in the system when engine is running, nobody wants to leave a window of opportunity for oil leak. i have done this for 3 years and never had problem to remove the filter when needed. if you search at "cummins" section in this site, spike, a retired oil field engineer, had a lot of saying on this.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:07 PM   #23
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I'm with Dennis, breaker bar first because with that you are in control of the pressure, and if that doesn't work then go to the impact tool. Tapping it a few times with a hammer, or a hammer and bar if you can't get to it with a hammer, may also help before going to the impact tool. If it were me, I would also start out with the impact tool on a lower setting and work up if that's possible.

Just my 2c.

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Old 01-11-2016, 07:38 PM   #24
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I had the same issue when I went to do the initial oil change on our 10kw genset. I used a 6 point impact socket on a breaker bar and wacked it a few times with a hammer them put a pipe on it and it popped loose.
Now, I went to do the 2 year coolant change and the radiator drain plug won't budge. It's a brass socket head plug (allen wrench style) - I tried cooling it with electronic spray, nothing..it being brass, the allen socket is rounding off on the inside.
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:49 PM   #25
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Just a reminder the Onan manual says the correct Torque for the drain plug is 32ft/lbs.

Guess they don't read the manual at the factory....
Should be a 22mm hex head plug.

Regards,

Dan
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:38 PM   #26
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Well you can and will do as you believe to be correct. My 40 years experience leads me to believe what i did and taught was correct. Never had a filter leak or fail to come off with much trouble.

I am well aware of the normal male idea that if 60 lbs of torque are good then well 70 must be better. That is not correct in fact that is wrong. If 3/4 to 1 full turn is enough to keep the oil in then why tighten it more???

Also sorry for refuting this comment as well. The Vice-Grip is the absolute last tool I ever grabbed in these situations. If I ever did grab the VG it almost never worked. Besides the VG will only grab it on about two sides. You're worse off.

I have successfully used a VG a few times but they were few and far between.

I've removed several nuts that were already partially rounded. One can carefully do this. File the sides as flat as one can. Then try a 6-point slightly smaller socket. Many a time I went from SAE to Metric to get one that would closly fit. Then I'd tap it on with a hammer. If all went well the slightly smaller nut would form to the smaller socket. Then I'd get the impact with a lower setting and impact it loose.

If you are not hammering onto an oil pan the IMPACT DRIVER is an excellent tool to have in the arsenal.

Think about this. For 35 years I worked with teen aged kids. If there's a way to screw something up they will find it. I sent a kid to R&R a caliper bolt. He broke it. I asked to see his ratchet. It was set to tighten. Daah!!! If it won't come off try harder.

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Old 01-12-2016, 08:10 AM   #27
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Also sorry for refuting this comment as well. The Vice-Grip is the absolute last tool I ever grabbed in these situations. If I ever did grab the VG it almost never worked. Besides the VG will only grab it on about two sides. You're worse off.

I have successfully used a VG a few times but they were few and far between.

I've removed several nuts that were already partially rounded. One can carefully do this. File the sides as flat as one can. Then try a 6-point slightly smaller socket. Many a time I went from SAE to Metric to get one that would closly fit. Then I'd tap it on with a hammer. If all went well the slightly smaller nut would form to the smaller socket. Then I'd get the impact with a lower setting and impact it loose.

If you are not hammering onto an oil pan the IMPACT DRIVER is an excellent tool to have in the arsenal.

Think about this. For 35 years I worked with teen aged kids. If there's a way to screw something up they will find it. I sent a kid to R&R a caliper bolt. He broke it. I asked to see his ratchet. It was set to tighten. Daah!!! If it won't come off try harder.

TeJay

I only have one thing to add to what TeJay said. Once you get the rounded plug out (doesn't really matter if you rounded it, or someone else rounded it), don't even THINK about putting the damaged plug back in!!!

Go get a new one and install. Better yet, for each vehicle, purchase a new plug, (generally about $3.00 to $4.00 each) to have on hand just in case you have a problem. Even better YET, I have the Fumoto T204N Drain Valve on my desk right now waiting for the next time I change the oil in my 3126B Cat. That and a hose to fit on the nipple will ensure no fuss, no muss oil changes in the future!
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:27 AM   #28
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I would hit the outside of plug hole with heat and the plug itself with dry ice and an impact wrench.
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