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Old 07-18-2014, 11:32 PM   #15
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The same will happen in a brick and mortar home with many times the backup being from neighboring homes up the hill from you as many municipalities do not allow a anti-backflow valve to be installed on the city sewer line which is to protect the municipal system from blowing a coupling.

After the toilet backs up why would you continue to pour water down the drain and back it all the way up to the sink anyway. The P-Trap is not going to protect you from topping the tank and then overfilling it until it backs up to the sink. It is very common knowledge that tank sensors are not accurate and someone with a particular medical condition that would make them more sensitive to contaminants should not wait until the indicators are showing red before dumping their tanks.

You could install an anti-back flow valve in the sink drain however since drain lines are not pressure lines but gravity fed you chance any backup going unnoticed until a drain coupling blows and floods your coach with effluent which would be far worse.

The proactive solution is to maintain your tank sensors by following established procedures commented on many times in this forum using one of the many recommended products and taking a moment when flushing the toilet to verify that the level has not started showing in the riser which is what most of us do when we are pushing things while dry camping.

A little common sense too when washing dishes while dry camping is also in order. If your faucet delivers one gallon of water per minute and you leave it open for ten minutes to rinse the dishes (I am presuming due to your condition you need to rinse extra well with very hot water) then you have just filled a forty gallon tank one quarter or so full so after two or three dish washing sessions and five toilet flushes your tank could have about thirty five gallons in it and be in need of dumping. Being proactive you would dump that tank after 2 dish washing sessions or use an outside camp sink to minimize loading the tank.

Remember also that some coaches are designed/setup for long term dry camping while others are for use primarily on a full hookup site. When you review the specs before purchasing a coach you need to verify that the tank layout and sizes meets your needs as a full hookup camper or someone who dry camps. Now if you disclosed this to the dealer along with your medical needs and they misled you selling you a coach that did not meet that criteria then that is another matter between you and the dealer which you purchased the coach from and has nothing to do with the National Sanitary Code.
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Old 07-19-2014, 03:52 PM   #16
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You might look into replacing your P-trap (and associated anti-siphon valve whose only purpose is to prevent the P-trap from siphoning dry) with a "Hepvo" valve from Drain Master. Looks to me like these make a lot more sense, especially in an RV.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:43 PM   #17
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While I am far from an expert on anything let alone RV plumbing, I don't see this a a totally bad thing. I am not sure any of us put enough water in the black tank. Everything you read tells you to use plenty of water if you want to avoid problems. So maybe it is a good thing.
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:56 PM   #18
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I just don't understand the complaint at all> because a sink drains into a black tank?
so what>??
S+B house do this all day long weather on septic or city sewer
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Old 07-19-2014, 06:58 PM   #19
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I don't see why a drain system would have anything to do with fresh water systems?? I suggest you bite the bullet and sell the vehicle. You are never going to be happy with that MH. Is there any way the kitchen drain can be rerouted to the grey water tank. It is not unusual for a bathroom vanity to drain into the black tank but why the kitchen sink?? Tells me all I want to know about Thor products.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:27 PM   #20
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The kitchen sink draining into the Black is a new one on me, we have had bathroom sinks for years draining into the Black tanks because it was convenient for MFG's to do so to cut cost on plumbing.
All the traps are all above the tanks in lower compartments and no water black can get back in to a kitchen sink.
The Gray water from sink or a bath room sink can overflow into your shower because the gray traps are higher than your shower trap and water pressure will force the gray water into your shower pan from the full Gray tank.
If you do not believe that let your bathroom sink faucets trickle out a small flow of water go shopping and come back to remove all the water that will overflow out of your shower pan. Its another way of cleaning your bathroom floor.
If your concerned that you think the Black tank can back flow up out of the lower Black tank place instead of the "P" trap use the one that can prevent that from happening.
If you have a flush tap to clean your black tank and force water into the tank that's full than possibly you will kick black water back up the "P" trap into your kitchen sink other than that I see no problem, only you will be emptying your black tank more often because you will be using more water to wash dish's.
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Old 07-19-2014, 07:31 PM   #21
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What I really need is something to get to my attorney with some weight behind it. Some sort of ANSI linkage or an official type site where I can hopefully print out what I believe to be true.
See Chapter 7 "Plumbing Systems" in the 2011 edition of NFPA 1192-2011 Standards on RVs.
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Old 07-20-2014, 07:55 AM   #22
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...can't even begin to express my horror that began when I discovered 1 of the toilets had backed up. So I began to prepare to drive to my dump site. Which included draining the kitchen sink I was soaking dishes in. A sink that refused to drop a lick because the kitchen sink drain is plumbed to the toilets tank. Meaning of course, my sink & the items in it were being contaminated...
I can see that a full black tank will prevent your kitchen sink from draining because there's no place for the water to go. However, the kitchen sink is 3' higher than the top of the black tank so I can't see any way the contents of the black tank will back up that far or slosh 3' high and contaminate your dishes.

If you're still afraid the black tank will slosh that high, do as jspande suggests and install a Hepvo valve in place of the P-trap. The Hepvo valve is a true check valve that uses a self-sealing membrane instead of just water. As an extra measure of safety, you can also keep the kitchen drain plug in place while you're driving.
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Old 07-20-2014, 08:39 AM   #23
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And as far as the P trap sloshing tank contents into the sink I suggest you make a P trap out of clear plastic. You can easily approximate it bu putting clear tubing bent to shape on a board. The only water int he trap is below the bottom of the output side. That is inches below the sink drain. Jostling will move a bit more out the drain side but not up the tube to the drain. Tipping eventually will but the MH will be on it's side in the ditch. Your imaginary scenario assumes gravity does not work. Before you get the level in the tank high enough to be a problem you will not be able to flush the toilet because the bowl will stop flowing into the tank. The last place you will have a problem from black tank overflow is the kitchen sink.
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Old 07-20-2014, 09:05 AM   #24
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You are barking up the wrong tree.

Sell the RV and buy one that fits your requirements.

RV's have very "loose" codes versus what regular homes require.

Now that you have learned a valuable lesson which is doing the proper research and due diligence prior to jumping in with both feet and getting crap all over them.

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Old 07-20-2014, 10:04 AM   #25
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I agree, why have the stress. Sell it and move on.
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Old 07-20-2014, 11:57 AM   #26
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Like I and others stated sell that unit. And don't even think of buying a Thor MH!!
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:41 PM   #27
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I have to strongly disagree with the advice you're getting to sell the rig. That would be a big financial hit and what would you get that's really any better in this regard? Grey water, especially if it include kitchen sink waste, is a pretty disgusting bacterial soup, perhaps no less a problem if it doused your dishes than black water.

On the other hand, the Hepvo valve costs very little and actually fixes your issue.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:01 PM   #28
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I have to strongly disagree with the advice you're getting to sell the rig. That would be a big financial hit and what would you get that's really any better in this regard? Grey water, especially if it include kitchen sink waste, is a pretty disgusting bacterial soup, perhaps no less a problem if it doused your dishes than black water.



On the other hand, the Hepvo valve costs very little and actually fixes your issue.

This is really good advise for the OP. Many manufacturers run some gray water into the black tank. I had a Winnebago DP with galley sink plumbed this way. Frankly, after a short period the gray tank is every bit as smelly as the black.

The best advise is to pay attention to dumping before full and treat the tank with the GEO method.


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