Propane regulator and altitude

[FTer&nj]

I have been having heater issues. I get them resolved (I think) after 15 months with a new rig. I go to the mountains, and heater quits working.

My vendor is stating that the change in altitude is causing regulator issue which is causing heater issue. I talked to a couple of RV dealers here in altitude. They both say they don’t believe it.

Is this urban myth, or a real issue? If it is real, and anyone has instructions on how to adjust Winntec 6020 regulator, appreciate any help.

[dwkerch]

The answer to your question is - that it is/can be a real issue. I had that issue with a pickup camper some years ago. Our outings typically vary from sea level to 11,000'. Significant changes in elevation can cause issues with regulated propane pressure. Depends on what the elevation change is and where your pressure regulator was initially set. If your regulator is set at and proper for sea level and you take it to 10,000 feet the difference in oxygen content in the atmosphere (less oxygen per given volume of atmosphere) can cause a problem with combustion. The fix for my problem was to have the regulator adjusted for elevations between the two extremes and that worked for me.

[Old-Biscuit]

Not so much a 'regulator' issue at altitude as it is a fuel issue......orifice too large for amount of oxygen available.


Yes ....lowering the system pressure by adjusting the LP Reg can help....but could cause ignition/flame issue on other appliance


Sometimes water heaters are affected............Suburban even has statements about derating above 4500'
HIGH ALTITUDE DERATION
Suburban’s water heaters are certified by nationally recognized testing laboratories for operation without modifications at altitudes up to 4,500 feet. Operation above this elevation may require derating by 4 percent for every 1,000 feet above sea level.

Derating is done by changing orifice ----Suburban uses a #61 orifice/12,000 btu flow rating with FIX air inlet
So 4000' change in altitude would need a #64 orifice/10,000 btu

[Old-Biscuit]

As to ;adjusting' Winntec Regulator
Under the Winntec Logo sticker should be an adjustment screw


With manometer connected to test port on an appliance gas vlave and at least 50% of the propane appliances in serivce you cn adjust the LP System pressure UP (turn screw clockwise) of DOWN (turn screw counter clockwise)


Don't have a manometer.................don't be attempting to adjust system pressure
11"WC is 0.396 psi
10"WC is 0.36 psi
You can NOT visually see the difference but in actual usage there is a BIG difference

[PSOUZA]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Not so much a 'regulator' issue at altitude as it is a fuel issue......orifice too large for amount of oxygen available.


Yes ....lowering the system pressure by adjusting the LP Reg can help....but could cause ignition/flame issue on other appliance


Sometimes water heaters are affected............Suburban even has statements about derating above 4500'
HIGH ALTITUDE DERATION
Suburban’s water heaters are certified by nationally recognized testing laboratories for operation without modifications at altitudes up to 4,500 feet. Operation above this elevation may require derating by 4 percent for every 1,000 feet above sea level.

Derating is done by changing orifice ----Suburban uses a #61 orifice/12,000 btu flow rating with FIX air inlet
So 4000' change in altitude would need a #64 orifice/10,000 btu

The propane pressure does not change from the tank supply at increased altitude. The regulator does not require adjustment at higher altitude. The regulator uses a mechanical spring as a "pressure" reference and does not understand altitude.

As elevation increases, Atmospheric pressure decreases because air is less dense at higher altitudes. Because the atmospheric pressure is lower, the vapor pressure of the liquid propane needs to be lower to reach boiling point. Therefore, less heat is required to make the vapor pressure equal to the atmospheric pressure. The boiling point, in the regulator, is lower at higher altitude. The tank pressure is not.

You need to remember a key point......a liquid boils when the vapor pressure equals the EXTERNAL PRESSURE..........if this drops......the Boiling point drops. This may have an effect on the way propane vapor changes to propane gas (in the regulator) since the final vaporization happens at a lower temperature than at sea level. More research needed.

The problem is a fuel / air mixture problem and needs to be addressed at the appliance.

It should not need saying, but....The propane pressure should be checked before messing with anything else.

Phil

[PSOUZA]

Originally Posted by FTer&nj

I have been having heater issues. I get them resolved (I think) after 15 months with a new rig. I go to the mountains, and heater quits working.

My vendor is stating that the change in altitude is causing regulator issue which is causing heater issue. I talked to a couple of RV dealers here in altitude. They both say they don’t believe it.

Is this urban myth, or a real issue? If it is real, and anyone has instructions on how to adjust Winntec 6020 regulator, appreciate any help.

You don't offer enough information, to give you a simple set of instructions to follow.

Most importantly, do not start screwing with the regulator without first checking the pressure with a manometer. Old Biscuit has already given you that message. Forensics can be a bitch if it goes boom.

What was the outside temperature when the heater failed to perform?
Did the stove burners reduce in volume when the heat came on?

The point of this questioning is to determine if possibly the load was exceeding the BTU output of the system.

These regulators seem to have given users low temperature gas delivery problems in the past. (me too!) Contamination in the low pressure delivery line(s) has also played a part. Winnebago has been unable to understand the problem, at least at the dealer level. Lack of follow-up information has made it difficult, or worse, to reach a resolution that could be demonstrated useful for all.

The short story, and fix, for me, was to replace the miserable Winnebago regulator with one with a larger BTU rating. Your situation may be different.

Phil