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Old 02-22-2016, 08:20 PM   #1
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Second a/c add on question

Looking at adding a second a/c to our 5er this spring as the existing 15K Btu unit is only fair at best in hot weather in the LR area and even worse at the far end - the bedroom. Since the second unit will a non-ducted unit and only for the bed and bathrooms, have been looking at the Dometic Penguin 13.5Btu and similar Coleman, both low profile since I'm trying to keep the total height at 13'6" or less. The trailer is advertised to be right at 12'10" now but I haven't (and can't for a while) done an actual verification check myself.

Now, my question(s) - does anyone have any experience with either brand - good or bad? The dollar difference between the two brand names is not significant. OR ----should I just say do it the usual way and purchase the standard size a/c and hope the DOT is lying about that 13'6" bridge? There is a pretty large dollar difference between the low profile and the standard units with the standards being as much as 2-300 bucks less which equates to a bunch of diesel fuel and travel miles.
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Old 02-23-2016, 08:23 AM   #2
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A couple of questions .

Is your 5'er wired for 50 amp service ?
Was a second A/C unit offered as a factory option ?
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
A couple of questions .

Is your 5'er wired for 50 amp service ?
Was a second A/C unit offered as a factory option ?
Yes as well as ... yes, with the wiring already in place at the BR vent in a separate 110VAC box labeled as such
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:40 AM   #4
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I would go with the Lo Pro unit. Our Cedar Creek came with a 15k in the living area & a 13.5k in the front bedroom. The bedroom unit was a Lo Pro unit. The couple hundred bucks difference in price is nothing compared to hitting something & damaging the unit plus the roof.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:41 AM   #5
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The advertised height " should be " to the top of the existing vent lid, OR , even to the top of an optional A/C in the bedroom.
JMHO; Contact the manufacturer and ask the type of optional A/C they would have installed, ( standard or , lo-pro ) and check the height measurement, is the height for just the vent or, does it include optional A/C.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:49 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by CampingCajun View Post
I would go with the Lo Pro unit. Our Cedar Creek came with a 15k in the living area & a 13.5k in the front bedroom. The bedroom unit was a Lo Pro unit. The couple hundred bucks difference in price is nothing compared to hitting something & damaging the unit plus the roof.
I had to do a search for that one!! It was mfr'd by Carrier and they no longer build RV air conditioners according to what I found when doing my initil 'net wandering. Too bad as from what I could find is that they were pretty decent units.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
The advertised height " should be " to the top of the existing vent lid, OR , even to the top of an optional A/C in the bedroom.
JMHO; Contact the manufacturer and ask the type of optional A/C they would have installed, ( standard or , lo-pro ) and check the height measurement, is the height for just the vent or, does it include optional A/C.
It is an almost new 5th wheel and it is in excess of 12' 6" tall by a very rough measurement I made last summer. Regardless of what they would have put on as an option, a low profile would be the best choice and after posting this, have decided that the Dometic Penguin or Coleman Mach 8 are my best choices at 8-9 inches high - but would like some real world experience info before I commit my dollars
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Old 02-23-2016, 02:34 PM   #8
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I have a pair of the Dometic Penguin II heat pumps in our unit. The cooling ability of the front unit is marginal especially in the Texas summer but I'm not sure if that is an issue with the unit or with the sizing and installation. We run it with the "quick cool" vent open for better air flow. It holds a 25F temperature drop which tells me the A/C is OK but it still doesn't have enough air flow. The installation of the AC power box effectively blocks about half of the air inlet and I have seen posts where relocating that helps immensely. I am planning on trying that before it gets hot. It got better after I cleaned the heat exchanger on the roof last year. The heat pump works well and keeps heating down to about 30F outside temperature.

The two units are going strong after more than 8 years so the reliability seems to be there. We have been full time in the motorhome since July of last year so they get a good workout.
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:02 AM   #9
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Thanks folks for the recommendations. Last night I decided on the a/c only Dometic Penguin ll 640315Cxx1C0 but with an add on electric heat strip. I think the Coleman might be a better choice, over 200 dollars difference along with the fact that there just aren't that many distributors for virtually the same unit capabilities pushed my decision. I also looked at the heat pump variations but since it will be a non-ducted unit without a 'real' thermostat and only for the front bedroom, decided to forego that feature.

Now, all I need is some muscular help to lift it to the 5ers roof---maybe that 6'6" HS athletic coach living next door

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Old 05-31-2016, 01:11 PM   #10
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Just a quick update - yep, I did it last week!!!

I finally put the second a/c on the roof. I asked the neighbor if he could help me haul that 90 pound lump the 12-13 feet up there and help center it on the hole left from the retired vent. He came over after work, latched on and dragged it up my well inclined ladder with almost no effort. My job - when all said was to help him the final foot or so. Of course he is about 6'6", former college football player and a coach at the local high school - and worse, half my age. Oh and he competes at the local Scottish Games, tossing the caber (a 19'6", 175 pound former tree)

About the worst part so far with this project was removing that vent assembly and digging up the sealer without tearing the rubber roofing. It seems that Keystone Plant 17 had an over abundance of goo that day and felt that it needed to be put around that vent on our 5er.

After once getting the a/c on the roof and located directly (centered) over the hole, it was time to pull the 110VAC wiring over to the unit in anticipation of installing the Dometic ceiling kit. Since ours was prewired, I did need to make sure that Keystone supplied the correct 20 amp breaker and actually put power to that box - they did. The box that was supplied, for no better term, was junk (cracked) and was not even capable of being fastened on one end. A trip the local Home Depot for an old work box, the larger of the two sizes, a 20 amp receptacle and a cover. That receptacle was used instead of wire nuts and IMO, a lot more substantial connection in an RV. I used a 2 foot piece of 12awg to continue the line to the a/c ceiling kit - where I did have to wire nut to that connector set.

The ceiling kit is pretty easy to install as the inner pan and 4 bolts pull the a/c down on the supplied gasket. It is supposed to be torqued to 50 in lbs but I had to do a bit more for complete comfort level and enough gasket compression. You do need an extra pair of hands for a few minutes installing the pan. The a/c plugs into a 6 pin connector on the pan assembly.

I also added the 5600 watt heat strip which plugs into a 4 pin connector. Unfortunately the instructions with this strip are pretty generic and the base pan is not pre drilled but they do have a drawing of about where it goes plus the hookup cable is only a certain length so that was my guide for this.

Finishing up - the cover is screwed in a couple places to the base pan and additional screws just fasten to the ceiling.

Plugged the trailer back in (yes, for safety's sake, all 110VAC power is disconnected) flipped the breaker, turned the temp and fan speed knobs and voila - the fan worked. Since we are only hooked to 15 amps at home couldn't actually try the a/c or heat but this past weekend found it blew a wealth of well cooled air and found that the heat strip would pump some Btus.

This is my parts list:
- Dometic 640315CXX1C0 Penguin II Polar White Low Profile Rooftop Air Conditioner

- Dometic Brisk Air II Non Ducted Ceiling Kit 3314851.000

- Dometic 3101121.030 Brisk Air Accessories Heat Kit

- Deep old work box

- 20 amp receptacle

- 2 feet 12 Awg romex

Total cost to me - about $740 - $750

The first three items were from AMAZON (the a/c is a LOT more expensive at this writing - about $175 with the other two, about the same as I paid)

Not a difficult project but it will take you 3-4 hours plus you will need another strong back and a pair of hands for a part of the project. Any moderately skilled DIYer with a very few tools can do this project. And before you ask, no, I did not take any photos during the mod but will try to take a few of the finished job this coming weekend

I did a check on the overall height over the a/c and hooked up to my truck - and am still within reason at 13'1", a gain of only a couple inches over the vent cover that was there
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:37 AM   #11
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Nice post IC2... Couple of questions.
I'm going to do the same, only the Brisk Air II, I think.
Did you install the gasket to the bottom of the A/C & set over the hole or gasket to the roof & set A/C on gasket?
Is your unit quiet on low, somewhat quiet, or loud?
You said "the heat strip (5600watt) would pump some btu's", does this mean a small electric heater in the bedroom is just as good?
Thanks...
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Old 06-01-2016, 08:25 AM   #12
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Nice post IC2... Couple of questions.
I'm going to do the same, only the Brisk Air II, I think.
Did you install the gasket to the bottom of the A/C & set over the hole or gasket to the roof & set A/C on gasket?
Is your unit quiet on low, somewhat quiet, or loud?
You said "the heat strip (5600watt) would pump some btu's", does this mean a small electric heater in the bedroom is just as good?
Thanks...

It was a kinda fun job
First, your questions - the gasket was attached to the new a/c as received so you don't have to bother with alignment. I ordered a spare just in case I 'screwed up' but it is still in the shipping box.

It is pretty quiet on low but that is a relative term, depending on how you hear noise. It is much quieter then the existing OEM ducted 15,000 Btu unit which is an Advent, I believe (but may be a Brisk Air).

The heat strip is 5600 watts while virtually every small bedroom heater is two or three ranges - 750/900/1500. For $45 dollars, I would add it to the a/c as it only takes a few minutes, assuming the Brisk Air uses the same one. My guess is that the add on will be more effective though we do carry a little twenty buck heater from Tractor Supply that does an admirable job.

A caution - that ~12.7" tall Brisk Air may just put you at a height that may cause you some low obstruction clearance problems. The Penguin is ~9.5" and the reason that I went with that model though a bit more costly.

Good luck - it's a worth while project
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:15 AM   #13
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Thanks for that IC2..
Following the measure twice & cut once rule, I have measured 2 times on a level concrete pad hooked up, although I don't have to cut as the front vent is there as was yours. I also don't want to go over the 13'6" height. The 5er is an 09 Keystone Everest and the height is listed as 12'8". It was 12'8" at the top of A/C in the back to the pad. The front vent, I have a Maxx Air cover and from the top of it to the concrete pad is 12' 6". From the top of the Maxx to the roof is 9 3/4", so removing it and adding a 13" A/C should raise the top 3 1/4", making my front somewhere around 12'10". Even off by a couple of inches I should still be well under the 13'6".
One more question.. Is the electrical box you are talking about replacing the one that is pre wired near the vent. I have not checked the box, only checked with meter to make sure there is power there from the circuit breaker and there is....
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:02 AM   #14
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That unit is a also a heat pump right?
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