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monaco2003 · 10-11-2020, 03:30 PM

Looking for anyone out there that had issues with there rv after installing a surge protector in-line.
Why I’m looking for answers is because I had a EMS-PT50C plug into my electrical system and had a electrical issue occur. We were awaken at 3:00 am in the morning with the A/C had quit and we could smell electrical wiring had burned. We immediately got outside of the rv and after assessing The situation we found the a/c had burn out with the tv, stereo/ dvd, dish receiver, the microwave, and many lights all shorted out. We have taken the rv to the dealership for repairs and why this happened. The management informed us that they couldn’t find anything wrong. The warranty was such that we were able to have everything repaired but with no answers why.
I then called the manufacture Heartland warranty group and they had no answers either. I was told that I should try the rv out and see if I could cause the same results again. I informed them that I would not jeopardize my family as maybe we would not get out the next time.

One of their top representatives wrote me a answer stating that the system had a electrical surge and that is why all the appliances burn up. He has stated the Heartland hasn’t breached its warranty and there is nothing they can do.

Please help, as I’m not sure what other avenues I should travel on.

Old-Biscuit · 10-11-2020, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monaco2003

Looking for anyone out there that had issues with there rv after installing a surge protector in-line.
Why I’m looking for answers is because I had a EMS-PT50C plug into my electrical system and had a electrical issue occur. We were awaken at 3:00 am in the morning with the A/C had quit and we could smell electrical wiring had burned. We immediately got outside of the rv and after assessing The situation we found the a/c had burn out with the tv, stereo/ dvd, dish receiver, the microwave, and many lights all shorted out. We have taken the rv to the dealership for repairs and why this happened. The management informed us that they couldn’t find anything wrong. The warranty was such that we were able to have everything repaired but with no answers why.
I then called the manufacture Heartland warranty group and they had no answers either. I was told that I should try the rv out and see if I could cause the same results again. I informed them that I would not jeopardize my family as maybe we would not get out the next time.

One of their top representatives wrote me a answer stating that the system had a electrical surge and that is why all the appliances burn up. He has stated the Heartland hasn’t breached its warranty and there is nothing they can do.

Please help, as I’m not sure what other avenues I should travel on.

Confused....
Did you have all damaged items replaced/repaired under Warranty??

That PI EMS-PT50C (portable unit) was not the 'cause' of your electrical problems
BUT it did NOT prevent a surge from causing your electrical problems

It doesn't produce voltage it just monitors/trips if Source Voltage is bad
Surge from source OR lightening can get thru a surge protection device

Did your device show any codes
Per PI...."Surge Indicator - If ever a power surge damages the surge protector circuit within the PT50C, a digital display error code will read E-10. This is your indication that it needs to be replaced."

"The situation we found the a/c had burn out with the tv, stereo/ dvd, dish receiver, the microwave, and many lights all shorted out."
Are all of the above items 120VAC ?
Are they ALL on same AC BUSS?
Did any Circuit Breakers TRIP?

Loss of Neutral Downstream of that Portable Surge Protector can cause high enough voltage on one hot leg to cause that can of damage.
Shore power cord, ATS, Main Panel....

monaco2003 · 10-11-2020, 10:54 PM

Yes all appliances where replaced under our warranty, no problem. No signs of lightning coming in or out on the RV. No error codes show up on the surge protector.
All the items that burned were on the same 120 Vac circuit. None of the circuits breakers tripped that I know of. Move the rv to the service department.
No sign of issue at the rv park and no lightning in the area. (Checked with electric company in area)
Thanks for your input.Phil

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 07:49 AM

Maybe something like this would ease your mind. It not only is a surge protector but it will shut off with over/under-voltage and current.

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Watchdo...2510491&sr=8-7

There's also a plug in version, but it's very large and very noticable.

Ljwt330 · 10-12-2020, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Maybe something like this would ease your mind. It not only is a surge protector but it will shut off with over/under-voltage and current.

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Watchdo...2510491&sr=8-7

There's also a plug in version, but it's very large and very noticable.

His EMS PT50C already has all those protection features. It appears from his last post that the issue was within the RV wiring, specifically to one circuit.

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

His EMS PT50C already has all those protection features. It appears from his last post that the issue was within the RV wiring, specifically to one circuit.

I'm not familiar with that device, but something didn't work very well. I'd probably try not only a different device but also a different brand device.

I'd also replace the breaker on that one circuit and make sure it was properly sized. Wires should not burn up!

twinboat · 10-12-2020, 10:15 AM

His issue was due to a lost neutral.

When that happens on a 120/240 volt 50 amp circuit, one 120 volt leg, with the higher amp draw, will go high in voltage while the other will drop low. Almost everything on the high voltage leg will burn out.

This can happen anywhere in the wiring, from the source to the main breaker panel.

An operating surge guard protects behind it, not after it.

The neutral could have been lost at the power cord plug, right where it plugs into the surge protector, or anywhere after it.

Old-Biscuit · 10-12-2020, 10:22 AM

AS I posted earlier
Loss of Neutral Downstream of that Portable Surge Protector can cause high enough voltage on one hot leg to cause that can of damage.
Shore power cord, ATS, Main Panel....

OP posted
All the items that burned were on the same 120 Vac circuit.

Definitely LOSS of Neutral.
Need to do continuity test on Power Cord Neutral wire, check ATS Neutral wire/connection and Main AC Panel Neutral connections

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Definitely LOSS of Neutral.
Need to do continuity test on Power Cord Neutral wire, check ATS Neutral wire/connection and Main AC Panel Neutral connections

That raises another issue. Testing the outlet before plugging in. I was camping in a free location that had power near where my rental RV broke down. There was definitely something wrong with the 30 amp outlet--it sparked and blew the pedestal breaker when I tried to plug in. I had to use the 15 amp. Since it was a rental RV I didn't have any devices to check things out.

Just recently I bought a 30 to 15 amp adapter so I can check continuity with a $5 device rather than my $100+ device.

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

His issue was due to a lost neutral.

When that happens on a 120/240 volt 50 amp circuit, one 120 volt leg, with the higher amp draw, will go high in voltage while the other will drop low. Almost everything on the high voltage leg will burn out.

If that's the case and the device the OP had does the same over/under voltage protection the device I linked, why would would the OP have had the issue?

twinboat · 10-12-2020, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

If that's the case and the device the OP had does the same over/under voltage protection the device I linked, why would would the OP have had the issue?

The loss of neutral had to have happened after the device or the device is broken.

They only check back towards the source, not issues in the RV.

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

The loss of neutral had to have happened after the device or the device is broken.

They only check back towards the source, not issues in the RV.

But the device I linked constantly checks for over/under voltage. So unless that condition doesn't make it back to the plug somehow, it would have turned it off.

Although it does have an automatic turn back on after the condition ceases, so I wonder how it would deal with that. Disconnecting would probably end the over/under condition, and possibly cause it to turn back on 90 seconds later.

twinboat · 10-12-2020, 12:39 PM

The voltage will be 120/240 at the RV side of the surge guard of your tester.

In A 50 amp RV, the neutral keeps the 240 volts in balance, 120 on each leg.

If you loose the neutral inside the RV, one 120 volt leg goes up and the other goes down, the same amount. It still always adds up to 240 volts at the plug wher your tester is.

They check the incoming power only. They can't look ahead at what's going in in the RV.

Goodspike · 10-12-2020, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

The voltage will be 120/240 at the RV side of the surge guard of your tester.

In A 50 amp RV, the neutral keeps the 240 volts in balance, 120 on each leg.

If you loose the neutral inside the RV, one 120 volt leg goes up and the other goes down, the same amount. It still always adds up to 240 volts at the plug wher your tester is.

They check the incoming power only. They can't look ahead at what's going in in the RV.

Well I understand this in theory better than practice, but seemingly if a line is 150 volts at one portion it will be 150 volts at another portion of the same line (until you get so far upstream the effect is negligible). So they may add up to 240 at the pedestal, but I have a hard time seeing both would be at 120 at that location. Or does it just go upstream to the breaker box where they share a neutral? I have a hard time seeing how it stops there.

But what about this scenario? Two RVs are plugged into 50 amp at adjacent sites. One of the RVs or its pedestal has an open ground issue. Couldn't the overvoltage situation from that one carry over into the other so closely connected? If not, how do you get an overvoltage situation at the pedestal?