Community Forums

Dr4Film · 02-14-2013, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimkate

A lot of very interesting, intelligent conversation.

Our travels put us in varied locations, seldom anywhere with any services to offer us, so we must be self sufficient. With 400AH of batteries, 2000W inverter and a 6.5KW generator, we manage OK.

When we considered a residential fridge, we already faced some facts. My wife and I use CPAP machines at night. On cooler days, our propane furnace must run. With the batteries fully charged when we go to bed, the combination of the CPAPs and the furnace will have the batteries pulled right down by early morning.

Jim,

Are your CPAP machines running on 120 VAC or 12 VDC?

I have heard about people having machines that can run on 12 VDC which will not draw down the house batteries as fast as the ones that go through the inverter.

It would require a dedicated 12 VDC line to be installed near the bed.

Also, have you considered adding the Onan EC-30W Wireless AGS System to your existing generator? I have the Trace RC7-GS but also added the EC-30W because the RC7-GS does not have a temperature sensor when using the A/C's for our pets.

I agree with everything you stated about using the residential and managing the generator and battery banks. I think if some people are apprehensive about changing out to a residential fridge, there are current methods available that will allow them to increase battery AH's and charging abilities to offset the worry about not having enough. I think in most cases they are not needed but some people just want to "make sure".

Dr4Film ----- Richard

jauguston · 02-14-2013, 10:48 AM

Dr,

Different Jim here but I use a Resperonics System One Auto with a humidifier and a heated hose all on 12v. I found a always hot 12v wire under the bed I use. I mounted a power plug socket on the side of the bed frame to plug it into. I believe virtually ALL C-Pap machines are 12v. The brick in the power cord converts 120v AC to 12v DC. I got my 12v power cord from c-pap.com. They have 12v cords for many machines. They also have the aftermarket universal heated hose. I cut the AC to DC brick off of the hose power cord and spliced it into the 12v cord for the C-Pap machine. The main reason I switched to 12v was so we didn't have to have the inverter on at night.

Papa_Jim · 02-14-2013, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Jim,

Are your CPAP machines running on 120 VAC or 12 VDC?

I have heard about people having machines that can run on 12 VDC which will not draw down the house batteries as fast as the ones that go through the inverter.

It would require a dedicated 12 VDC line to be installed near the bed.

Also, have you considered adding the Onan EC-30W Wireless AGS System to your existing generator? I have the Trace RC7-GS but also added the EC-30W because the RC7-GS does not have a temperature sensor when using the A/C's for our pets.

I agree with everything you stated about using the residential and managing the generator and battery banks. I think if some people are apprehensive about changing out to a residential fridge, there are current methods available that will allow them to increase battery AH's and charging abilities to offset the worry about not having enough. I think in most cases they are not needed but some people just want to "make sure".

Dr4Film ----- Richard

I'm in the process of changing the CPAPs to 12V feed. It'll happen eventually. Just one of the many things we're considering and working on in the process.

It is the Onan EC-30W that we are considering.

It's a process. The bottom line for us is that energy is required for daily living. We have to figure out what energy is right for us and how best to manage it.

Not trying to be controversial here, but for us, switching to a residential fridge did not have much, if any affect on the way we live in our coach. The propane fridge was marginally acceptable at best, and was a very inefficient consumer of power.

Our electricity consumption, and use of our generator is controlled by all the other large energy consumers that are being used every day, specially in weather when the propane furnace is being used. The propane furnace is a huge electricity consumer.

so47 · 02-15-2013, 03:04 PM

Just my two cents on residential fridge energy usage. In the aftermath of our last hurricane I was without power for 2+ weeks. I learned that if I ran my genset (s+b) for 4 hours a day, with minimal door openings during the other 20 hours I was easily able to maintain reasonable internal temps.

RV Dan · 02-15-2013, 08:09 PM

I guess there is no breaking period. I just had a new Norcold installed and thought they put the old one back in when I picked it up. They said the newer ones need more time to cool.

Dr4Film · 02-16-2013, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RV Dan

I guess there is no breaking period. I just had a new Norcold installed and thought they put the old one back in when I picked it up. They said the newer ones need more time to cool.

What makes you think that a NEW Norcold aka NotSoCold would work any better than a old one???

They are still being built the same way and even come from the factory with the POS CYA recall box attached. Now isn't that a pleasant thought!!

Dr4Film ----- Richard

RV Dan · 02-16-2013, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimkate

I'm in the process of changing the CPAPs to 12V feed. It'll happen eventually. Just one of the many things we're considering and working on in the process.

It is the Onan EC-30W that we are considering.

It's a process. The bottom line for us is that energy is required for daily living. We have to figure out what energy is right for us and how best to manage it.

Not trying to be controversial here, but for us, switching to a residential fridge did not have much, if any affect on the way we live in our coach. The propane fridge was marginally acceptable at best, and was a very inefficient consumer of power.

Our electricity consumption, and use of our generator is controlled by all the other large energy consumers that are being used every day, specially in weather when the propane furnace is being used. The propane furnace is a huge electricity consumer.

I use a CPAP aching and had the medical equipment company order a 12 volt cable. I think it was $20 dollars. It works well and does not kill your house batteries.

Galvanizd · 02-17-2013, 12:07 PM

Hello, thought I'd jump in here. Been reading the entire thread from the beginning and find it interesting and useful. Thanks all for the info. Been looking at the question of res refrig or the Amish cooling unit. Got a 2003 Mon Dip, with 4 house batteries and what I believe is a Zantrex (spelling?) 1500 inverter with a 1200rlim model, not in a slide with recall done. It died a couple of weeks ago (taps, planned buriel at sea) , so I'm looking for a direction go. The Norcold served well for 10 years without ever being turned off. Undecided at the moment which way to go. Trying to get all the info I can before I decide. So again thanks

jauguston · 02-17-2013, 02:38 PM

Galv,

They both work. If I had continuous service for 10 years with no problems and it didn't kill me the decision would be simple. A new $1025.00 Amish Cooling Unit from David Force. We haven't had our coach for 10 years but the LRIM 1200 quit making cold. Our Amish cooling unit replacement does.

If you were paranoid that your Norcold was going to kill you I would go residential but you are not if you had it for 10 years. We have had three Norcolds in three different coaches and this last one was the only one we had trouble with and all three were on all the time.

Jim

Stan&Jacquie · 02-17-2013, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jauguston

Galv,

They both work. If I had continuous service for 10 years with no problems and it didn't kill me the decision would be simple. A new $1025.00 Amish Cooling Unit from David Force. We haven't had our coach for 10 years but the LRIM 1200 quit making cold. Our Amish cooling unit replacement does.

If you were paranoid that your Norcold was going to kill you I would go residential but you are not if you had it for 10 years. We have had three Norcolds in three different coaches and this last one was the only one we had trouble with and all three were on all the time.

Jim

Jim...i heartily agree. I used my domestic absorption frig consistently since 1992 and we had no major issues. I will be replacing the cu in my '07 norcold this spring with an Amish unit. It's a relatively easy job; can be done inside the rig; no major access or entrance issues; least costly with no negative implications for the electrical system. Seems like a no brainer!

Stan

Galvanizd · 02-17-2013, 09:42 PM

Well, when the recalls on the Norcold started coming along with reports of fires in some rigs, I got a bit concerned. Had the recalls done, checked the multiple fire extinguishers in the coach, talked with the wife about evac plans in the event of a fire. We never had a problem. First sign was a blown circuit board fuse, then about 10 days later, the dreaded ammonia smell. Shut everything down immediately. I like the fact that someone made a better cooling unit. I also like the fact or so it would appear ,with a bit of modification, I can use a residential unit. Nothing lasts for ever. I like both options. Have to wait and see.

Dr4Film · 02-18-2013, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stant

Jim...i heartily agree. I used my domestic absorption frig consistently since 1992 and we had no major issues. I will be replacing the cu in my '07 norcold this spring with an Amish unit. It's a relatively easy job; can be done inside the rig; no major access or entrance issues; least costly with no negative implications for the electrical system. Seems like a no brainer!

Stan,

YES!

It is a no brainer. Get the Norcold aka NotSoCold out ASAP and install the Amish cooling unit. You will be a Happy Camper once it's done.

One caution, follow the installation instructions exactly and take no shortcuts. If you have questions, David Force is the one to call.

There have been very POOR installations of the Amish cooling units by owners and service techs that have required removal and re-installation in order to have the unit work correctly.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

peskyfeller · 02-18-2013, 09:13 AM

Hi, I moderate the Bounder Group on Yahoo. We have 4,000 members and during the last three years the Norcold situation has come up a lot. My Norcold 1200 never gave me any trouble until after I had the first recall done. Shortly after that I had the second recall done. My refrigerator has run constantly since 2003 except when I was defrosting the freezer. Last summer the cooling unit quit cooling. No leaks. I decided to upgrade to the Amish unit and took my 2003 Bounder to Shipshewanna, IN to have a new one put in.

When they pulled my refrigerator out I was horrified when I saw the condition of my cooling unit. The pipes on the boiler had been so hot it burned off the paint and they were badly corroded.

Unfortunately the new unit had a couple of problems after installation. The screws holding the flame sensor, fan switch and burner assembly were all loose. The installers, at the Amish factory, used the same screws that were in the Norcold unit but the holes were slightly larger. They seemed tight because of the fresh paint. Once I got back on the road the paint in the screw holes let go and those parts were very loose. I fixed those problems myself by using larger screws.

Two of my friends had their units replaced at the factory within a few weeks of when I replaced mine. They had the same problems. We contacted David Force and he looked into it and determined that the holes in the new parts were in fact punched a little large. He said the problem was corrected.

One other thing I noticed was my fans seemed to run more with the new unit. I elected to move the fan switch up to the upper fins and a bit farther away from the boiler. Problem solved.

The Amish units are very well built and are really fast at cooling down the refrigerator. I love the unit as do a couple of dozen of my group members who had them installed. I think the Norcold refrigerator is a very good refrigerator but I would not trust the cooling units as they are made from very thin tubing.

As for installing a 110 volt house model I would not consider it unless I never went on the road. If that were the case I would just buy a mobile home, house or rent an apartment.

Putting a residential refrigerator in a RV more has to be considered than if it fits. To begin with the inverter used should be a "pure sine wave" (PSW) inverter. Household refrigerators have motors in the compressors and the fans that are designed to run on household current. PSW Inverters are very expensive and they draw a lot of battery power. Because of that more batteries are needed. If you think your inverter will run off the alternator while you are on the road think again. Most inverters will shut off when the voltage coming in is over 14.5 volts. It isn't unusual for an alternator to put out higher voltage when batteries are low. I'm not saying that all RVs have a problem with that. High end diesels have huge combination inverter/converters that do well.

You might get away with running a refrigerator on a "modified sine wave' (MSW) inverter but I have read a lot of reports about refrigerators failing when being used on MSW converters. Here is a video that shows what happens when using a MSW inverter on something designed to run on household power: "

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Stan,

YES!

It is a no brainer. Get the Norcold aka NotSoCold out ASAP and install the Amish cooling unit. You will be a Happy Camper once it's done.

One caution, follow the installation instructions exactly and take no shortcuts. If you have questions, David Force is the one to call.

There have been very POOR installations of the Amish cooling units by owners and service techs that have required removal and re-installation in order to have the unit work correctly.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

Galvanizd · 02-18-2013, 10:11 AM

Trying to educate myself here. Peskyfeller. Inverter off. My rv gets plugged into shore power. Power Goes thru the inverter and charges the house batteries. I plug anything in, like my norcold refrig, is the power going thru the inverter to my refrig? or is the refrig just being operated from the shore power hook up? I don't know which but I figure my refrigerator is running on shore power one way or the other. Are you saying that if I run it through the inverter, the refrigerator may not be compatible for that type electrical usage? The other reason I ask is we don't use the inverter while traveling. With our old Norcold , we traveled with the refrig off so there was little fire hazard while refueling etc. The refrigerator stayed cold while traveling with the refrig off.
When dry camping, about one week total a year, (overnight while traveling) the generator gets run about 3 hours a day to charge batteries. I always run the generator when I get low batteries. Less work/heat for the alt when traveling. ( per manual ) While the generator is running, its also running the electrical side of the refrig?? Is the problem with res refrig, the inverter type? Everyone has different rv types and usage so I realize my rv and usage may differ. I get it that current advice on this thread is for my rv/conditions to install an Amish CU. But I'm reading alot about Samsung 197 model RR being installed with good results by alot of rv'ers???