The Only Real Cure for an Norcold RV Refrigerator "Problem"

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by jauguston

Richard,

If your generator comes on at 4:30 AM how long does it run before it shuts off? What is the initial charge rate from your converter? How do you deal with generator hours with that system? I have thought about adding a AGS to our Onan QD 7500 but there is no way I could have the generator run after 9pm or before 8am in most places we camp.

Jim

Originally Posted by dforce1

Richard,
"My house battery bank is 450 AH capacity but I only use 50% of that before the generator will come on and recharge"

I get a lot of people asking me questions about the Home refrigerators in the RV using during their week stays boon-dock style. Since you have been using this set up for awhile you are the one with answers from your testing. This will really help a lot of people to understand. Could you help? If your gen set starts when, as you stated, at 50% battery and you say you have 450 AH battery, wouldn't that be 225 amps removed. In order for the 225 amps to be replaced, bring the battery bank back to the 450 AH how long does the Gen Set run to replace the 225 amps.

Jim & David,

From my experience, if the batteries are at 11.8 - 12.0 VDC when the generator comes on, it will take about 3 - 3.5 hours to bring the battery bank back to FLOAT state of charge or SOC. It will be a lot less if you choose a different level on your AGS configuration but the FLOAT SOC is when the batteries are Fully charged.

I do not purposely boon-dock or dry camp off the grid. However, I do a lot of free camping along my travel route for over night stays. I try to make sure that the battery bank is fully charged before heading for bed. When it does come on close to morning, I am about ready to get up anyway and use the generator to make coffee and use the microwave so I just let it run for awhile and then turn it off. The batteries will be topped off when we get back on the road.

I did boon-dock for 4-5 days once while visiting a friend in PA. I was parked in a school parking lot adjacent to his house. I just let the AGS and generator do its thing when needed. It's all automatic, comes on at 11.8 - 12 VDC and shuts off when the batteries are at FLOAT SOC.

The one place where we camped with generator restrictions was in Denali National Park in Alaska. I just made sure that we adhered to their hours and ran the generator to keep the batteries as fully charged as possible during those hours. I made sure that the AGS was turned off for all other times and that ALL unnecessary stuff was turned off.

My Charge Rate is set for 80%. The Trace AGS has a menu where you can set it up for different selections based on the menu. I have mine set up ideally for the type of battery bank I am currently using.

I have attached my AGS Menu Selections.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[jauguston]

Richard,

My computer will not open that attachment. The only question left unanswered is not what % your charge system is set to but what is the amp output of your converter when it is recharging your battery bank. With a voltage of 12.2v being 50% SOC how do your batteries like being discharged to 11.8v. At 11.8v you are discharging well below 50% SOC. Have you had any issues with shortening battery life discharging that low?

Jim

[Happycarz]

Drifter, a fulltimer, who posts on the Monaco page plugged his Samsung RF1197 into a Kill-A-Watt meter and took readings from 24 hours to 3 days at a time.

After doing the math to convert to 12 v usage, we came up with 110AH +/- per day to run the Samsung.

[jauguston]

Harry,

To get a complete picture what was the ambient outside temperature during the test Drifter did as that could cause a fairly wide range of power needs? Also was the refer in a slide? Being in a slide could also effect the power use. The energy needs whether residential or propane RV could be much different at 50 degrees OAT than at 90 degrees.

Drifters refer must be FAR more efficient than the one Dr 4 film has. Drifters uses 110 AH in 24 hours yet Dr 4 Film replaces 225 AH from powering his over night if I am reading things right.

Jim

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by jauguston

Richard,

My computer will not open that attachment. The only question left unanswered is not what % your charge system is set to but what is the amp output of your converter when it is recharging your battery bank. With a voltage of 12.2v being 50% SOC how do your batteries like being discharged to 11.8v. At 11.8v you are discharging well below 50% SOC. Have you had any issues with shortening battery life discharging that low?

Jim

Jim,

My Trace RV-2102 2000 Watt Inverter/Converter is set to 80% Charge Rate however, there is no specific menu item to adjust the amount of amps for the converter to charge the batteries. When reading the specs, it states that it is variable between 10 - 100 amps. The charger has three charge stages, Bulk, Absorption and Float. Bulk rate charges the batteries quickly and then Absorption rate takes over at about 14.6 or so followed by Float rate which is 13.6 or so. The absorption and Float take the longest.

I only use the 11.8 setting for the SOC when it's cold outside and I am using the Aqua-Hot system to stay warm during the night. The rest of the time I am using 12.0 as my 50% SOC. Some charts will say 12.2 as 50% SOC and other charts use 12.0 as the 50% SOC. Take your pick for the correct one.

To clarify the use of my batteries for the Samsung RF197, I would concur with Drifter's findings on his RF197. If when retiring for the night and I am ONLY using the inverter for the fridge, my generator never comes on the entire night. It's only when I am too lazy to go around the coach and turn off all of the peripheral 120 VAC and 12 VDC stuff that saps power from the batteries which causes my generator to come on around 4:30 or 5 am in the morning. However, that's about the time I happen to be getting up anyway so no big deal for me.

BTW, the previous attachment requires that you use some sort of Word Processing software on your PC. It happens to be a Microsoft Word document. I can't help you if you don't have any software to open it up.

Attached it the PDF file brochure for the Xantrex Trace RV-2012 MSW Inverter/Converter that I use to power the coach and fridge. This file requires that you have the Adobe Acrobat Reader installed.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[CampDaven]

I'm think this thread is soooo totally freekin bent.
Shall we go back on topic? Sheesh!

[jauguston]

Daven,

It may seem to you that we have gotten way off topic but really we aren't. There are a lot of RV'ers that think about switching to a residential refer. Trouble is there has not been much discussion that I am aware of of what in the real world does it actually take to provide power to one when off-grid. What is going on here is a attempt to get first person accurate information on just what it takes. Not a interesting subject for some but valuable information for someone trying to decide what would be best for their situation.

Jim

[Happycarz]

Drifter's numbers

Refrigerator plugged into inverter with Power Saver On.
________________________________________

Date Time Temp. Hi/Low Killowatts used

12/23 to 12/24 = 23.55 hrs. 55/36 1.07

12/24 to 12/25= 48.36 hrs. 60/40 2.37

12/26 to 12/26= 75.20 hrs. 63/40 3.56

________________________________________
Refrigerator plugged into inverter with Power Saver Off.

12/26 to 12/27= 21.36 65/36 1.08

12/27 to 12/30= 92.12 77/44 5.32

On edit: As much as I try, the header and numbers won't line up. Sorry
Hopefully, you can decipher.

[Pianotuna]

Hi,

Word processing documents may be openned with word pad, if you are using a PC. If that fails, try downloading and installing Open Office (which is free).

The numbers collected for the residential fridge are about the same as I collected at my home for a bottom of the line Frigidaire (only upgrade, glass shelving).

[jauguston]

Thanks Tuna. I had Open Office on the previous laptop but hadn't added it to this new ASUS N56V. I am just barely computer literate and often as in this case never know what needs fixing to make something like that file work. I am a heck of a good crane operator but computers not so much (-:

I don't really understand the meaning of the chart Carz posted.

Jim

[Happycarz]

Sorry about that.

Let's take the first line of data:
12/24 to 12/25 = 23.55 hrs on the meter.
55/36 is the High/Low outside temperature during the time above.
1.07 is the kilowatts used during the same time. (110 volts)

I hope this helps.

It all lined up when creating the post. Once I posted, the tabs (spaces) went away.

[jauguston]

Thanks Harry. For dummies like me can you translate the 1.07 KW 110vAC for basically 24 hours into amp hours out of a 12v DC RV house battery bank? It would now be interesting for those considering a residential refer to get that same test in a typical Summer 90-70 degree day.

Jim

[Papa_Jim]

Originally Posted by jauguston

Daven,

It may seem to you that we have gotten way off topic but really we aren't. There are a lot of RV'ers that think about switching to a residential refer. Trouble is there has not been much discussion that I am aware of of what in the real world does it actually take to provide power to one when off-grid. What is going on here is a attempt to get first person accurate information on just what it takes. Not a interesting subject for some but valuable information for someone trying to decide what would be best for their situation.

Jim

A lot of very interesting, intelligent conversation.

Our travels put us in varied locations, seldom anywhere with any
services to offer us, so we must be self sufficient. With 400AH of
batteries, 2000W inverter and a 6.5KW generator, we manage OK.

When we considered a residential fridge, we already faced some facts.
My wife and I use CPAP machines at night. On cooler days, our propane
furnace must run. With the batteries fully charged when we go to bed,
the combination of the CPAPs and the furnace will have the batteries
pulled right down by early morning. Because of this, we are planning
to add batteries, and we are seriously considering having the
automatic start feature installed in our generator, to avoid the risk
of having the batteries drawn down too far. Our tests showed us that
the fridge uses practically no power through the night because it is
not being opened at all during the night.

So, the last thing we do before going to bed is to run the generator
long enough to fully charge the batteries. The first thing we do in
the morning is to run the generator to make breakfast and charge the
batteries. Then, if we're moving, the engine alternator keeps the
batteries up through the day. If we're not moving, we use the
generator as needed through the day. We always use the generator
whenever we want to use 'big power' items, like the coffee maker or
the microwave, and we love our coffee. So, for us, any little bit of
power that the residential fridge uses during the day is of very
little, if any consequence to us. In fact, when moving during the day,
we always ran our old Norcold on electric power, and it was very
inefficient compared to our new fridge.

Regarding the changeover to residential fridge, the only concern to us
is how to set things up so the system will maintain itself if we must
leave our coach for a day or two. This reinforces our thinking that
we should have auto start on the generator. Also, we wonder if adding
a solar charging system would be of benefit.

[Pianotuna]

Hi Jim,

1.07 kwh /12.8 volts ~= 84 amp-hours assuming zero voltage drop and perfect efficiency. Probably the real answer is about 107 amp-hours used because of conversion losses from the inverter.

Originally Posted by jauguston

Thanks Harry. For dummies like me can you translate the 1.07 KW 110vAC for basically 24 hours into amp hours out of a 12v DC RV house battery bank? It would now be interesting for those considering a residential refer to get that same test in a typical Summer 90-70 degree day.

Jim