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Old 12-18-2014, 07:25 PM   #29
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Here's a tip, since you're not familiar with RVs--park your RV with as many windows facing south as you can, especially the windshield. If you get any sun, it will make an enormous difference in keeping the RV warm during the day.
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Old 12-19-2014, 04:51 PM   #30
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Usually the 50 amp is not 220V at a park. Most would be inclined to get an extend-a-stay attachment to use an external propane tank.
Sorry to tell you this Neil but you need to go back to the books and research the truth about 50 amp power outlets

They are indeed 240 volts (or at least are supposed to be) divided. (As we say in the kitchen) into two 120 volt legs, but it is indeed 240/120 volt service same as what comes into your house, just 50 amps instead of the larger service at the house.

YOu can prove it,, take a volt meter to the two side terminals. CAUTION 240 volts can put you into a negative altitude position (- six feet) with horizontal attitude, and both positive altitude and vertical attitude are kind of important.
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:15 PM   #31
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on demand water heaters

hi we have on demand water heater in our house they need a lot of water
pressure to turn on thats so they dont burn up the elements i would think
you would not have the pressure needed and in winter it could be worse
i would use the hot rod in your curent water heater
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:33 PM   #32
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We have a Hurricane diesel fired hydronic heating system that originally had no electric alternative. Last year we had Rixen Enterprises in Sandy OR install a Comfort Hot system that provides 4,000 watts of electric heating. The way it is installed is to use two A/C circuits that aren't needed in the winter. Doing this frees up power capacity without taking it from lighting and other circuits. Our experience is that 50A service is more than adequate for our needs but there are circuit issues if we have to run space heaters from the existing circuits. The Comfort Hot solves our heating power issues.
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Old 12-20-2014, 04:50 AM   #33
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Just an update: I'm no longer planning on running the 50A and the 30A service simultaneously. The park that I intend to stay at mentioned that only some lots provide both, so I don't think I can count on that. Not to mention my general concern over whether or not the pedestal can safely supply that.


@kustom

I just ordered a 6.5kW unit from Home Depot (it was on sale for 40% off, so came out to $86.. Woohoo!) and mentions needing around .5GPM to turn on. When using it, I expect to have shore power and water, so the water pressure should generally be sufficient, right?

I'm not sure if I can actually count on 6.5kW to be enough for showering, and since I need to keep the existing water heater warm (unless I completely bypass it), I think I'm going to do what I mentioned earlier: convert the current heater to electric (Hott Rod, etc), set it really hot, and run my instant water heat in front of it. The instant water heater will act as a preheater to extend the usable amount of hot water and also only kicks on when flow rate demands are high...... At least in theory. heh


@docj

It wasn't entirely clear in your post if you still occasionally use space heaters, or if the Comfort Hot system now completely meets your needs. I finished the physical mod to my furnace unit (installed 4500W heating element and over temp shut-off switch), now it's a matter of testing it out to make sure it works good, and then wire it all up. I'm hoping that, and maybe one additional space heater will fit my needs.





Since I'll just be strictly 50A, I have an idea in mind which will minimize hassles. I can detect when the instant water heater (little less than 30A) kicks on and automatically shut off the furnace if it's running (as well as prohibit it from kicking on). That way I always maintain an electric budget of at least 40A, 10A more than it had off the showroom floor.
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Old 12-20-2014, 08:14 AM   #34
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@docj

It wasn't entirely clear in your post if you still occasionally use space heaters, or if the Comfort Hot system now completely meets your needs. I finished the physical mod to my furnace unit (installed 4500W heating element and over temp shut-off switch), now it's a matter of testing it out to make sure it works good, and then wire it all up. I'm hoping that, and maybe one additional space heater will fit my needs.
We've been able to use the Comfort Hot by itself as long as temps stay in the 30's or above which is fine for where we winter in TX. It's 4kW of heat is more than two space heaters operating on high provide and it's better distributed in the MH because there are 5 heat exchanger/registers. We do have a couple of heaters stored in the basement as backup but we don't normally need them. However, ours is a very well insulated MH with dual pane windows.
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Old 12-20-2014, 09:07 AM   #35
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take it back to home depot it will not work we live hign in the mountains
with year round temps of 75-78 but have underground fed spring water
thats ice cold we tryed a 12000 w instant water heater then a 15000w
still no good then 18000w uses 3 6000w elements to heat water .that
6.5w unit will not heat water in winter return it get a hot rod for your water heater or your going to take ice cold showers
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:15 AM   #36
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Sorry to tell you this Neil but you need to go back to the books and research the truth about 50 amp power outlets

They are indeed 240 volts (or at least are supposed to be) divided. (As we say in the kitchen) into two 120 volt legs, but it is indeed 240/120 volt service same as what comes into your house, just 50 amps instead of the larger service at the house.

YOu can prove it,, take a volt meter to the two side terminals. CAUTION 240 volts can put you into a negative altitude position (- six feet) with horizontal attitude, and both positive altitude and vertical attitude are kind of important.
Have stayed at a number of Auto Parks setup just after WWII and checked already finding that too many are wired for 50 amp 110 only. Newer parks have 220 most of the time. Whats supposed to be and what is doesn't always jive. Note to that many older parks will have signs posted advising that use of electric heat or electric space heaters is not allowed since their electrical system won't support the draw. Many were setup with aluminum wiring that after 60 years is showing its age.

I was head of maintenance at a millworks that was setup during the Civil War and converted to electric early on so I am familiar with old electrical systems and the many quirks one may find. It is still running on a three phase system on thee bare (aside from some paint overspray) copper rods suspended from a 12 foot ceiling in a wood frame building. Could't get the budget to at least put a conduit box over them to prevent folks from leaning metal ladders against them and then using them as grab rails when working up there. Caught one guy after he had drilled and tapped into one bar to drop an unprotected 110 volt outlet at his workbench straight off the X Hundred amp bar. Somehow he did not get juiced even though he was using a corded metal cased drill which had the ground lug clipped off.

Thousand Trails in Clermont, FL has been going through their park the past few years laying copper in to replace the old aluminum wiring due to the issues they have had with it.

Personally I am doing fine with my 30 amp 2001 Adventurer that was initially set up for a small film crew shooting in Alaska. Already has thermal pane windows all around, double insulated vent domes, factory installed cal-rod in the waterheater and such. Just buried the sewer and water lines in leaves/pine needles and was good for up to two weeks in sub freezing temps up in the White Mountains in Maine and New Hampshire. That was with the wife, two adult daughters, large dog and cat. One tank of propane covered the two weeks. I do run a wall mounted supplemental electric heater on occasion (where its allowed) to further economize without having to get into heavily modifying the coach.

Moisture can be a problem especially from showers or open pots boiling on the stove. You seal up a motor home too tight to keep the heat in and the condensation will be worse. That is why most motor homes will have a note in the owners manual stating that they were not designed for full time or long term occupation even though many use them for that purpose.

I would consider getting a length of flexible insulated AC duct to use as a sock over the sewer and water hoses from where they exit the coach to their dividing point to help protect things from freezing for longer stays. Insulating the dog house with Dynamatt also can help as can (when at a site) running a layer of it from over the passenger side window around the cockpit around and over the drivers side window. Adding some under the cockpit carpeting can also help since the cab floor may not be insulated at all except for the carpet with the added benefit of a quieter drive.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:13 AM   #37
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Sorry to tell you this Neil but you need to go back to the books and research the truth about 50 amp power outlets

They are indeed 240 volts (or at least are supposed to be) divided. (As we say in the kitchen) into two 120 volt legs, but it is indeed 240/120 volt service same as what comes into your house, just 50 amps instead of the larger service at the house.

YOu can prove it,, take a volt meter to the two side terminals. CAUTION 240 volts can put you into a negative altitude position (- six feet) with horizontal attitude, and both positive altitude and vertical attitude are kind of important.
You need to do some more research. Some parks are wired with three phase and will have 120v across each leg but, across the two legs, will have only 208v.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:18 AM   #38
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Usually the 50 amp is not 220V at a park. Most would be inclined to get an extend-a-stay attachment to use an external propane tank.
50 amp 110??????... 110 +110 =220, correct m if I'm wrong
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:28 AM   #39
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Have stayed at a number of Auto Parks setup just after WWII and checked already finding that too many are wired for 50 amp 110 only. Newer parks have 220 most of the time. Whats supposed to be and what is doesn't always jive.
I assume what your saying is that at some parks the two legs of the 50A circuit aren't out of phase and, therefore, the voltage across them is actually zero rather than being 240V. This is a serious violation of the National Electric Code and could subject the neutral conductor in your RV power cord to far higher current than it was designed for.

Normally, the out of phase nature of the two 50A legs limits the maximum current flow through the neutral to 50A (50A on one leg and zero on the other). As current in the second leg increases, the current flow through the neutral decreases. In the scenario you describe, if both legs were drawing 50A the total through the neutral would be 100A which would be well above the rating for that wire.

This is one wiring condition that most, if not all, power management devices fail to test for. Which is all the more reason to test a power pedestal before you connect to it. It only take a moment to verify that there is 240V between the two legs of the 50A outlet.
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:31 AM   #40
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You need to do some more research. Some parks are wired with three phase and will have 120v across each leg but, across the two legs, will have only 208v.
Although I've heard this claim, I've yet to be at a park where this is the case. Three-phase power is usually only found in industrial locations and most parks wouldn't even have access to it.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:23 AM   #41
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Consider this:

It is true that an on-demand heater's efficiency is related to incoming water temp. Add the on-demand heater after the standard heater with a Hott Rod installed. Use propane as you desire. Make sure Hott rod has adjustable thermostat and set it to lowest temp. The lower wattage, on-demand heater should be able to efficiently produce unlimited hot water, as intended.

I would add a switch for the on-demand heater, near the shower and only turn it on for showering. The low temp standard heater would be adequate for sink uses, for me.

As far as using 30A AND 50A, I wouldn't count on it. It's one way and problematic.
You have a portable home that you want to be able to plug-in, anywhere, anytime.
I would add a 20A service to run the basics. This could be plugged into any 15A outlet in an emergency. One space heater could keep you alive.
I would do a 20A panel with at least 2 - 15A circuits. Move some of the original 15A circuits, like converter, refrig and wall outlets to this new panel. Then re-wire the 30A TO 50A to accommodate your heavier power needs.

I have considered converting furnace to electric for myself and decided that I prefer to manage 2 or 3 space heaters, insulation and clotihng instead of one energy hungry appliance.
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Old 12-21-2014, 12:37 PM   #42
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Foursome-one that don't know,
How about radiant heat under the carpet? Most Rv'ers are always replaceing the carpet too, wood or tile or recarpeting. Isn't it like wires that warm like a electric Blanket. or water (No in a MH) Suppose too be cheap heat and a better type of heat, dryer.
I really don't know and always thought that if I replaced the carpet I could do it.???
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