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Old 03-30-2023, 06:34 PM   #1
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Victron inverters split-phase

With my new coach I'm planning a new inverter setup. I'm planning a pair of 24v/5000w/120v victron Quattro inverters in split phase. This will allow me to run 240v on each output. Would I be able to use a 30amp or 15amp 120v to charge? I'm assuming so and just one inverter would charge and not the other.

Also would I be able to use 2 15amp cords from separate 120v breakers even on the same pole at home? I'd think so since they're charging but not certain if I'm also drawing 240v power from something
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Old 03-31-2023, 07:52 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain8 View Post
With my new coach I'm planning a new inverter setup. I'm planning a pair of 24v/5000w/120v Victron Quattro inverters in split phase. This will allow me to run 240v on each output. Would I be able to use a 30amp or 15amp 120v to charge? I'm assuming so and just one inverter would charge and not the other.

Also, would I be able to use 2 15amp cords from separate 120v breakers even on the same pole at home? I'd think so since they're charging but not certain if I'm also drawing 240v power from something
I do not see the benefit of using the Quattro units vs the Multiplus or MultiplusII units other than the 3000W vs 5000W output. You really don't need the Quattro's other features not to mention the cost difference.

Your 240V (Split Phase) is actually 120/240 and the 240 is created through the split phase output of the 2 units. you need 2 units to create 120/240 regardless of whether you use a Quattro or Multiplus.

We run dual 24/3000 W multiplus units and have for almost 3 years now. We installed a separate 240V breaker in a subpanel, as we elected to leave the existing panel in place and wired it directly from the inverters.

As far as using any inputs that are not in split-phase (like a 30A shore power outlet) your inverters are smart enough to sense that the two power inputs are not 180* out of phase and will still power both legs but will invert on one leg and pass through on the other. The fix for this (and if you have a 120V on-board generator)is to add an Autotransformer that split the output and creates 2- 120V lines that are 120/240 and this will allow both inverters to output on each line.

It's up to you and the size of your power needs but in our case we have been able to run 2 rooftop ACs (Soft start), a residential refrigerator, a residential 3CF freezer, an electric WH, a wine cooler, satellite TV, Starlink and all household systems including the Microwave with the slightest of load management.

Good luck with your installation and happy boondocking!!
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Old 03-31-2023, 08:04 AM   #3
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The proposed system appears to be overly complicated for RV use. It may be designed for stationary use with solar or generator input in addition to grid power. There appear to be many configurations for different purposes.
https://www.ziehl.com/en/products/detail/UFR1001E-54/

Ziehl offers on-line chat. I suggest you pose questions there. There may be better simpler solutions for RV use. I am unwilling to spend the time to understand this system.

You can certainly use 240 volt split phase grid power as input to two units. I am not sure you can use two 15 or 20 amp 120 volt inputs.

There would be no way to insure 240 volt output. It depends on the two input sources.

Some configurations include a built in generator input that simulates an ATS.

Outputs also vary. The system has pass through as well as inverted output, but outputs may not be able to combine so output circuits will probably have to be isolated from each other depending on how the system is configured.

Both units would be connected to the battery bank to be able to invert. Both would then charge the battery bank when on shore power. They will work together charging just fine.
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Old 03-31-2023, 09:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
I do not see the benefit of using the Quattro units vs the Multiplus or MultiplusII units other than the 3000W vs 5000W output. You really don't need the Quattro's other features not to mention the cost difference.

Your 240V (Split Phase) is actually 120/240 and the 240 is created through the split phase output of the 2 units. you need 2 units to create 120/240 regardless of whether you use a Quattro or Multiplus.

We run dual 24/3000 W multiplus units and have for almost 3 years now. We installed a separate 240V breaker in a subpanel, as we elected to leave the existing panel in place and wired it directly from the inverters.

As far as using any inputs that are not in split-phase (like a 30A shore power outlet) your inverters are smart enough to sense that the two power inputs are not 180* out of phase and will still power both legs but will invert on one leg and pass through on the other. The fix for this (and if you have a 120V on-board generator)is to add an Autotransformer that split the output and creates 2- 120V lines that are 120/240 and this will allow both inverters to output on each line.

It's up to you and the size of your power needs but in our case we have been able to run 2 rooftop ACs (Soft start), a residential refrigerator, a residential 3CF freezer, an electric WH, a wine cooler, satellite TV, Starlink and all household systems including the Microwave with the slightest of load management.

Good luck with your installation and happy boondocking!!
Awesome thanks for this. I run a Quattro 12v right now on my current rig and will be getting 2 new 24v ones. The reason for Quattro over MP is the dual inputs and auto transfer. This eliminates the need for additional controls in front of the inverters so I can directly wire Gen and shore to the inverters then pass thru to breakers. Not even just 5000w each but also 100amp pass thru on each in/output.

I don't want an autotransformer but you're saying without it I'll be able to use a 30amp input on one inverter and if I have a 240v cooktop I should be able to use it while one inverter is passthru and other is inverting? It's unlikely I'll be using the full 30amp so that inverter would also be charging while the other inverter is draining so in many cases I won't lose battery. Right?

BTW the new coach has 5 rooftop ac units for whatever reason.
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Old 03-31-2023, 09:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Persistent View Post
The proposed system appears to be overly complicated for RV use. It may be designed for stationary use with solar or generator input in addition to grid power. There appear to be many configurations for different purposes.
https://www.ziehl.com/en/products/detail/UFR1001E-54/

Ziehl offers on-line chat. I suggest you pose questions there. There may be better simpler solutions for RV use. I am unwilling to spend the time to understand this system.

You can certainly use 240 volt split phase grid power as input to two units. I am not sure you can use two 15 or 20 amp 120 volt inputs.

There would be no way to insure 240 volt output. It depends on the two input sources.

Some configurations include a built in generator input that simulates an ATS.

Outputs also vary. The system has pass through as well as inverted output, but outputs may not be able to combine so output circuits will probably have to be isolated from each other depending on how the system is configured.

Both units would be connected to the battery bank to be able to invert. Both would then charge the battery bank when on shore power. They will work together charging just fine.
Its not that complicated and the 50amp RV shore is 240v in split phase, just trying to determine how "smart" the Victron smart inverters are to make sure I know all limitations of the system.

Wouldn't be good if I put a 240v mini split and then can't use my 120v/20a shore cable I have at home.
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Old 03-31-2023, 05:01 PM   #6
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Its not that complicated and the 50amp RV shore is 240v in split phase, just trying to determine how "smart" the Victron smart inverters are to make sure I know all limitations of the system.

Wouldn't be good if I put a 240v mini split and then can't use my 120v/20a shore cable I have at home.
https://www.skystreamenergy.com/what...d-split-phase/

You nor I have probably never seen split phase. Itís single phase, nothing more.
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Old 03-31-2023, 08:31 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Captain8 View Post
I don't want an autotransformer but you're saying without it I'll be able to use a 30amp input on one inverter and if I have a 240v cooktop I should be able to use it while one inverter is passthru and other is inverting? It's unlikely I'll be using the full 30amp so that inverter would also be charging while the other inverter is draining so in many cases I won't lose battery. Right?

BTW the new coach has 5 rooftop ac units for whatever reason.
Yes, I ran this way for a while until I installed the Autotransformer (Generator only) but still works this way on 120V vs 120/240 (Single phase as we have been corrected on ). The first inverter/charger passes through L1 and also charges the battery bank while the second unit inverts power on L2.
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Old 03-31-2023, 10:39 PM   #8
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I should take the time to apologize and explain, when you use a center tap 240 volt transformer, the 240 volt is correctly termed split phase. It is used in series. It also could be unequal voltages though. If you are using 120/120 and not 240 it is single phase, not split phase. Been too long since Iíve read this stuff. Probably should have kept quiet.
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Old 04-01-2023, 06:03 PM   #9
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Yes, I ran this way for a while until I installed the Autotransformer (Generator only) but still works this way on 120V vs 120/240 (Single phase as we have been corrected on ). The first inverter/charger passes through L1 and also charges the battery bank while the second unit inverts power on L2.
Awesome thanks. I'm pretty sure in my new rig the genny is 240v, I'll know here in a couple days. It's 20k watts
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Old 04-01-2023, 07:14 PM   #10
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Awesome thanks. I'm pretty sure in my new rig the genny is 240v, I'll know here in a couple days. It's 20k watts
If it's 20K......it's 120/240 for sure
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Old 04-02-2023, 05:46 AM   #11
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Also would I be able to use 2 15amp cords from separate 120v breakers even on the same pole at home? I'd think so since they're charging but not certain if I'm also drawing 240v power from something

Only if they are connected to L1 and L2, the victron units stay in phase with the supply, you can only get 240V if the phases are opposite.
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