RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > RV SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGIES FORUMS > RV Systems & Appliances
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #85
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,023
I do not say it does not happen. I mean "Stuff happens" as they say.... But how often does it happen?

How many Norcold Fridges are there out there, how many have gone up in flames? When the 2nd number hits a significant percentage it is NO LONGER PARANOIA.

The paranoid alarmists are saying that IF you have a Norcold THEN it it is going to catch fire... I know that it MIGHT, so might my Dometic, So might my engine, So might a brake that failed to release, So might {Laundry list of things},

The difference between me and a paranoid alarmist is that word MIGHT. So what do I do .. Well, I know how to get out in a hurry, I know where the fire extinguishers are all five of them, And I keep my phone hand for the 9-1-1 bit. I also have a bit of training (More than most but not by any means professional level) in how to use those extinguishers.

About the best example of the difference I can give from my own personal point of view is not paranoia but acrophobia. I happen to be acrophobic.

So, why is there a photo of me (Somewhere) hanging onto the top of a 100' Antenna tower reaching a bit farther out than I really should installing a mast-head per-amp in a Channal master signal grabber (Antenna) at my dad's farm.


My faith in my safety gear and my knowledge of how to use it was greater than my phobia.

In the case of a fridge fire, I have no beliefe in my ability to save the Motor home, but that is why I pay insurance tomorrow (The due date by the way is tomorrow). I DO have faith in my ability to get out of the house if I have to.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #86
Registered User
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cherry Creek, BC Canada
Posts: 7,648
More power to yuh Gunga Din. There ain't no way this fat cat id getting up more than about 8 feet on a ladder and that's it that's all; yesirree Bob.

The unit I just bought has a Norcold fridge so when I saw the thread about them going up in flames I started to read and then because of training in a previous life I started researching these fires.

I found lots of information but also lots of paranoia about the number of times it has happened. People were reiterating what had already been posted elsewhere and when it was at all possible verifying the post was darn near impossible because those with quotes were in most cases the umpteenth reposting of the same incident.

I know things go boom in the night, afternoon and evening so I am cautious of the propane systems we use continuously in our RVs. I attribute the repeated information as the cause of the paranoia. I know what I am dealing with in the unit in our MH and feel confident that it works as it is supposed to and that I have the drip tray hose hooked up and ending outside, the space behind and above the fridge has been cleaned and vacuumed of all fire causing material and insect problems, and I will be installing a couple of 12V computer box fans moving air over the heat exchangers which should keep things cooler back there. I do have some 3400 degree Fahrenheit insulation material that will be used to insulate the area around the electric and propane heater unit that makes the fridge work when on. This is a project in the works and I will report on how it works out when I am done; if I get a successful result.

I agree there is a problem but I also sincerely believe the real numbers are greatly exaggerated; YMMV.
Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 05:42 PM   #87
Senior Member
 
Chuck 1935's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shadow Hills,CA 91040
Posts: 3,038
wa8yxm & Possum
I couldn't agree with you more. I have traveled all over the USA for many years and have NEVER seen any RV fire, much less one caused by a faulty refrigerator. This is not to say it doesn't happen. I am sure it does but I have taken all the precautions to assure I am able to vacate the RV and call my Insurance Company for a replacement. I assure you I am not hiding my head in the sand, but I am far from keeping a hose spraying on the refrigerator side of my Motorhome.
__________________
NOTE; I am not responsible for typos, poor grammer or misspelled word !
04 Itasca, Meridian 34H, 330 Cat/2003 CR V Toad
1933 Ford 3 Window,as seen in Bye Bye Birdie
Pvt. E1 Retired, Shadow Hills,Ca.
Chuck 1935 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 10:27 AM   #88
Senior Member
 
Georgie Boy Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
At the risk of setting off the doom and gloom boys again. There seems to be a missing alarm, seems like a alarm mounted inside the MH with a temp sensor mounted high in the machine area of the refer should be a looked at for a safety addition. Not a smoke sensor but a high temp sensor, say around 300* . Open flame would set this off in short order, give you time to exit and maybe enough time to empty a ABC extingisher in the rear of the refer. By this time it would be a wood fire from the surounding woodwork rather than a chemical fire.

Without an alarm a fire behind the refer would be well established before someone might find it. It has a fresh air vent at the base and a smoke vent at the top. Just what a refer needs to work and just what a fire needs to get started. If nothing else the class action suit may require more safety devices.

I now have a CO2 alarm, two Smoke alarms, combustible gas alarm, low voltage alarm, refer door open alarm, Coffee maker was left on alarm, Microwave has finished alarm, Not to mention the alarms attached to a diesel pusher.

But it seems a over temp alarm behind refer would rate high on this list, in fact one of the first four.

Seems like this would be good for the boys who retrofit a domestic refer also. One of my most common refer repairs is a burnt out start relay on the compressor. They do this because of the high local heat they generate during operation. In fact all MH's with closed in areas with heat producing equiptment installed, refer, furnace, central vac, basement icemaker, so forth.

Where are the fire safety boys when you want them?
glenn allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 11:03 AM   #89
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,574
Glenn - that is an excellent idea as far as I can see. Couple that with a halon extinguisher at the refer, generator and engine and we'd all be a lot safer. Wonder why such things aren't standard. Relative cost added to price of unit is small and added safety would be worth the expense.

Probably as valuable a post as any I've read on the topic including all the warnings. Yeah people need to be aware but the same thing repeated multiple times and ways in a thread makes me want to unsubscribe - but then ya never know when something new and of actual value might be added. A good early warning and extinguisher may have saved units and lives.
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 11:06 AM   #90
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,023
I agree with both the sensor and the halon system, Just now I can barely afford food, this will change in about 60 days (give or take a very few) and a Halon system from mac the fire guy is high on the shopping list. Right after a towed.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #91
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm
I agree with both the sensor and the halon system, Just now I can barely afford food, this will change in about 60 days (give or take a very few) and a Halon system from mac the fire guy is high on the shopping list. Right after a towed.
Where are ya? We got food! Will leave a light on for ya!
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2013, 02:45 PM   #92
Registered User
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Varies Depending on The Weather
Posts: 8,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn allen View Post

At the risk of setting off the doom and gloom boys again. There seems to be a missing alarm, seems like a alarm mounted inside the MH with a temp sensor mounted high in the machine area of the refer should be a looked at for a safety addition. Not a smoke sensor but a high temp sensor, say around 300* . Open flame would set this off in short order, give you time to exit and maybe enough time to empty a ABC extinguisher in the rear of the refer. By this time it would be a wood fire from the surrounding woodwork rather than a chemical fire.

Where are the fire safety boys when you want them?
Glenn,

You have described something very similar to what Norcold has chosen for their latest recall device which is installed onto the heating stack near the 120 VAC heaters. However, its temp setting is significantly higher than 300F. Last time I checked it was more like 900F or thereabouts.

The Halon SS-20 fire suppression tanks are set to release at 165F. If it were me, to minimize the damage from a refer fire, I would install either two halon units, one mounted just above the 120 VAC heaters and another one with a remote head mounted between the coiling cooling fans and the upper cooling coils. The reason for a remote head is twofold. One the head is smaller and will fit into the very confined space easier and second, one needs to look at the pressure gauge to make sure it remains fully charged and ready. Another option would be to use the AFFF SS-200 or SS-300 fire suppression system with two remote heads placed in similar positions as mentioned above.

Or scrap the whole fire suppression plan and do nothing. Only use your fridge while you are using the RV and do not store anything in the RV that is not replaceable. Oh and make sure your insurance premiums are paid up.

For me since the RV is R HOME, I take all preventative necessary precautions that I can so I won't lose everything I own in this world.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
Dr4Film is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:07 AM   #93
Senior Member
 
Georgie Boy Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 127
If I am reading the charts correctly, about 350* F will give about 30 minutes of alarm before the wood surounding the machine compartment will reach iginition tempature.

In the summer, with open flame in the machine compartment, that tempature would be reached rather quickly in the top of the machine compartment.

If the sensor was tripped to early then you would suffer setting off the alarm when the machine compartment is still normal.

If a temp setting was to high then a bigger fire would be going before the alarm went off.

I am thinking a 300* alarm would be just about right. If someone was there to attend the alarm then a 5 pound ABC extingisher might just be able to contain the fire. If not it should give time to react and exit the MH.

I would agree, there are several things that I would surpress with a automatic extingisher. Engine, Genset, Refer machine compartment, Furnace compartment, Water heater, All of which use LPG to make fire. Then there is the Fuse panel, both 120v and 12 volt, battery storage.

Most likely not all areas would be protected, but for the owner/installer there are several questions to answer. Which are most likely to have a problem, how does the owner use the rig, which areas have a high record of failure? All questions that should be answered before a project of this type should be done. And of course weigh it all against the costs.

It would not surprise me to see in a few years a alarm system in the machine area of RV refers. If nothing else, Norcold recalls may drive this.

But in hind sight, who would have thought that a RV refer would end up as a source of fire that would result in the loss of a RV? Then along came Norcold looking to meet the federal requirements of efficiency. Boost heat input and thin down sheaths to make the heat transfer quickly. Then you may have a problem after several years.
glenn allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:30 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn allen View Post

But in hind sight, who would have thought that a RV refer would end up as a source of fire that would result in the loss of a RV? Then along came Norcold looking to meet the federal requirements of efficiency. Boost heat input and thin down sheaths to make the heat transfer quickly. Then you may have a problem after several years.
yup .... who woulda' thunk it?
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 09:22 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn allen
But in hind sight, who would have thought that a RV refer would end up as a source of fire that would result in the loss of a RV? Then along came Norcold looking to meet the federal requirements of efficiency. Boost heat input and thin down sheaths to make the heat transfer quickly. Then you may have a problem after several years.
Is this a Norcold statement or your conclusion. Either way - does this mean the Amish solution doesn't meet federal efficiency requirements. Not sure if the above is a plausible defense of Norcold or indictment of the Amish unit. Seems to cut both ways at least a little. Or maybe the Amish got it just right. Just when I'm convinced to go Amish. Confused.
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 01:45 AM   #96
Registered User
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Vintage RV Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cherry Creek, BC Canada
Posts: 7,648
Quote:
Originally Posted by flaggship1 View Post
Is this a Norcold statement or your conclusion. Either way - does this mean the Amish solution doesn't meet federal efficiency requirements. Not sure if the above is a plausible defense of Norcold or indictment of the Amish unit. Seems to cut both ways at least a little. Or maybe the Amish got it just right. Just when I'm convinced to go Amish. Confused.
I think the Amish guys have the best of both worlds here. The fridge guys build fridges and have to meet efficiency standards. The Amish just build strong replacement cooling units and therein lies the rub. The Amish don't have to meet the fridge requirements so their replacement cooling units can be built like tanks. YMMV nut I have no expertise in the matter just guessing really.
Possum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 08:02 AM   #97
Senior Member
 
flaggship1's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rainbow Riding
Posts: 18,574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Possum
I think the Amish guys have the best of both worlds here. The fridge guys build fridges and have to meet efficiency standards. The Amish just build strong replacement cooling units and therein lies the rub. The Amish don't have to meet the fridge requirements so their replacement cooling units can be built like tanks. YMMV nut I have no expertise in the matter just guessing really.
Thanks Possum. Now I know I'm going Amish. I'm too conventional these days. Just think - I can brag to all the kids that my refrigerator isn't "street legal". Hope the revenuers don't come after me. Might have to make a run for it.
__________________
Steve & Annie (RVM2)
2008 Fleetwood Bounder 38F ~ 325 ISB Turbo ~ Freightliner XC 2014 CR-V ~ Invisibrake / Sterling All Terrain
Sioux Falls, SD (FullTime Since Nov 5th 2014)
flaggship1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2013, 03:00 PM   #98
Senior Member
 
Chuck 1935's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shadow Hills,CA 91040
Posts: 3,038
After reading and reading and then reading more about the Norcold on this and another post and finding my comfort level going to hell, I decided to call Norcold to try and get the straight skinny, maybe , or at least some information.
The recall was done because of the possability of fire, if for some reason the refrigerator failed to shut off thereby keeping the flame or heater running.
The recall is designed to shut off the electric or the flame if it reaches a pre set temp. It sounds reasonable to me. I did have a failure on my recall which shut down my refrieg. The operative word here is shutdown. It did what it was supposed to do just at the wrong time. I had the recall sensor replaced and all is well.
I have never had a cooling problem with my Norcold and am satisfied that the extra protection that the recall gives.
S
__________________
NOTE; I am not responsible for typos, poor grammer or misspelled word !
04 Itasca, Meridian 34H, 330 Cat/2003 CR V Toad
1933 Ford 3 Window,as seen in Bye Bye Birdie
Pvt. E1 Retired, Shadow Hills,Ca.
Chuck 1935 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fridge



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.