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02-10-2016, 06:18 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DW Driver - Englewood FL
Posts: 1,448
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We have all tried to answer the question and Mel provided a nice option. The real question is why does he want to use two 15 amp plugs to a 30 amp to power his MH 50 amp service. There are plenty of adapters to get power to the MH including installing a dedicated outlet (30 amp) to support the MH. Rube goldberg is alive and well.
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La Dagobago
99 36 FL Winne Chieftain 5.9 ISB Turbo Cummins DP, 24' box with HD Sporty Hobby of 1970's Suzuki dirt bike restoration. Visit my blog.
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02-10-2016, 07:51 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pasdad1
Two Honda eu2000i generators can be combined with a special parallel cable to produce 30 amps......seems like a special box could be built to do the same thing from two 15 amp shore power cords
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The two Hondas are designed from the factory do do that, They contain special electronics that enable that to happen.. DO NOT TRY IT WITH CONTRACTOR MODELS or ... Well you can make a real mess.. I do know how to do it, but I do not think it will work with portables.
When I said it might work or not I was assumign a 30 amp RV
now if you have a 50 amp RV you can put 15 amps into each leg, but that's not the same as a 30 amp RV..
I used to have an adapter to do just that (Put 15 amps on each of the two legs) but I can barely run one A/C on 15 amps.
I also have one of the "Cheater boxes" (two 30 amp plugs and a 50 amp outlet) mentioned above. Works great... To Test the park's GFCI (Trips it every time) if park so equipped. I have two places where I can actually use it. without taking two sites, which upsets management.
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Home is where I park it!
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02-10-2016, 08:27 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 400
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Can it be that the need for 30 amps is because they are running right at 30 amps all the time? I seem to recall that circuits/outlets are only rated for 80% continuous use. Above that and circuit breakers and fuses are supposed to time out and open the circuit. Lets see 30 times .8 is 24 amps. It will work for awhile at 30 amps but the closer you get to the 30 the shorter the time the circuit will stay on. At least that is the way it was explained to me ( and i haven't read the NEC in quite some time so I could be way wrong. I am open to being edumacated.
Goos luck, good health and safe travels!
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2001 Holiday Rambler Imperial 41ft PBD 370hp ISL AF1 braking system
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02-10-2016, 08:29 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F4Gary
Just wondering, I know there is a reason.
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The reason is liability. As mentioned, plug the extension cords into outlets that are out of phase and something bad is going to happen at the speed of light. The average consumer has no idea how to determine which outlet is on which circuit bus of the home breaker panel so you'll have a 50-50 change of getting it right or getting it very wrong. Plus there's probably National Electrical Code (aka NEC) restrictions and prohibitions regarding bridging or cross connecting circuits but I'm not familiar enough with code to site chapter, verse or paragraph. Plus a manufacture would never get a UL certification because of the potential safety hazard.
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02-10-2016, 08:43 AM
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetbriar
The reason is liability. As mentioned, plug the extension cords into outlets that are out of phase and something bad is going to happen at the speed of light. The average consumer has no idea how to determine which outlet is on which circuit bus of the home breaker panel so you'll have a 50-50 change of getting it right or getting it very wrong. Plus there's probably National Electrical Code (aka NEC) restrictions and prohibitions regarding bridging or cross connecting circuits but I'm not familiar enough with code to site chapter, verse or paragraph. Plus a manufacture would never get a UL certification because of the potential safety hazard.
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Sweetbria
Methinks the " baddest" thing that will happen if/when you plug the 2 extension cords into 2 " in phase" 15A outlets is that you will only have 15A usable in the coach.
Mel
'96 Safari
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02-10-2016, 09:37 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,925
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel s
Sweetbria
Methinks the "baddest" thing that will happen if/when you plug the 2 extension cords into 2 "in phase" 15A outlets is that you will only have 15A usable in the coach.
Mel
'96 Safari
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Mel, if the two outlets are 180º out of phase, you'll be connecting hot to neutral in a full on short. A large arc, the burning of the plug's prongs and a tripping of at least one of the breakers will result.
To combine two 15 amp outlets into one 30 amp outlet would require wiring both hot leads to the one hot in the 30 amp female plug. When you plug in either of the 15 amp extension cords, it would energize the male plug of the other 'cheater cord.' This would be a shock hazard and no manufacturer could get away with such a product. If they were combined into a 50 amp female plug, the two hots never join together in an RV 50 amp system, however the neutral is combined, so plugging it into two 15 amp outlets out of phase would result in a short at the neutral. Since there's no way to insure that the cheater cord would be used only when plugging into in phase outlets, again the product would be a safety liability suit waiting to happen and illegal.
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Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
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02-10-2016, 10:21 AM
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#35
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BFlinn181
Mel, if the two outlets are 180º out of phase, you'll be connecting hot to neutral in a full on short. A large arc, the burning of the plug's prongs and a tripping of at least one of the breakers will result.
To combine two 15 amp outlets into one 30 amp outlet would require wiring both hot leads to the one hot in the 30 amp female plug. When you plug in either of the 15 amp extension cords, it would energize the male plug of the other 'cheater cord.' This would be a shock hazard and no manufacturer could get away with such a product. If they were combined into a 50 amp female plug, the two hots never join together in an RV 50 amp system, however the neutral is combined, so plugging it into two 15 amp outlets out of phase would result in a short at the neutral. Since there's no way to insure that the cheater cord would be used only when plugging into in phase outlets, again the product would be a safety liability suit waiting to happen and illegal.
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It is not a smart move. That said you have not shown why it would not work if properly done.
FWIW I was going to ignore the computer comment in the original post but the current crop of sensors and relays would let somebody use a small controller and circuit checks to eliminate the shock hazard by testing each cord's power before energizing a relay to make the connection. I agree that it does not seem like something safe to sell but that does not mean it cannot be done. It does point out one of the issues though, legal liability if the relay welds itself closed.
FWIW2 - the neutrals in a split phase 240 VAC circuit are already combined. No problem there.
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02-10-2016, 10:38 AM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 601
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I think we need to go back to my magic smoke theory. Try putting the wires together in all kinds of different fashions. When the magic smoke does not come out, all is well.
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plus Ryder,Poodle and
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02-10-2016, 10:45 AM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Grapevine, Tx
Posts: 5,625
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So it's that second hot wire. Got it.
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02-10-2016, 11:45 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: TEJAS
Posts: 813
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My RV is a single phase 30 amp 120 volt rig. The majority of the time it is parked, it is plugged to a 15 amp standard duplex outlet using one of those little adapter thingies to maintain the batteries and an occasional use of one of the air conditioner. When I need to fire up the whole Monty, I use a cord I made that plugs into a 50 amp dryer outlet. The dryer outlet is 240 volts so I use one of the hots and the neutral.
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02-10-2016, 12:05 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F4Gary
So it's that second hot wire. Got it.
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The second hot wire from the correct place depending on what you are up to. That is the secret. ;-)
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02-10-2016, 12:05 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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So by the time we gather all of the relays, contactors, phase sensors, pigtails, plugs, recepticals and enclosure we could have picked up 50 ft of 10-2 with ground, a 30 amp RV receptical and breaker.
Now it's there for ever.
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02-10-2016, 12:15 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
So by the time we gather all of the relays, contactors, phase sensors, pigtails, plugs, recepticals and enclosure we could have picked up 50 ft of 10-2 with ground, a 30 amp RV receptical and breaker.
Now it's there for ever.
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I have been following this thread and was sitting here thinking the same thing.
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02-10-2016, 03:29 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel s
Sweetbria
Methinks the "baddest" thing that will happen if/when you plug the 2 extension cords into 2 "in phase" 15A outlets is that you will only have 15A usable in the coach.
Mel
'96 Safari
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Well sure, that would be the upside 50% but there's the problem of having a hot male plug until you get it into the second outlet.
I'm with twinboat and dabrooks, much easier to install a 30 amp RV outlet, which is what I did.
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