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Old 01-18-2025, 08:08 PM   #1
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Xantrex inverter question

Hey guys have an interesting question,

I had a xantrex freedom 458 inverter that was fried by a repair shop fixing another issue.. got reimbursed but I purchased a new freedom 458 however this one has 2 external breakers on it and (2) ac outputs (1) ac input. My old inverter had no external breakers, and only (1) output that fed a small subpanel.

I hooked it up to the 20a output and all works, however I just was cooking dinner and tripped the inverter breaker… never happened on the other inverter. (Didn’t have breakers, and I think the output was 30-35a)

I am connected to shore power, 50a, however all my outlets run off the inverter sub panel. So here’s my question, can I connect both 20 and 15a inverter outputs together and connect to my sub panel? This would effectively (in my mind) allow the sub panel breakers to trip first rather than the inverter breaker.
The inverter sub panel has a 30a main breaker in the main panel.

I know it is probably best practice to install a second sub panel and move a breaker or 2 over and connect to the second output on inverter but there’s no more room to install a second one EASILY.

Please let me know if this is frowned upon, hoping it is not!
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Old 01-18-2025, 08:57 PM   #2
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First off why another 458? That is a bit of an outdated design and not true sine wave.
The 2nd output circuit may have other functionality so you can't just tie them together. You need an inverter with a single leg 30 amp pass through relay. What you may be able to do is take one circuit out of the sub panel and just move it to that 2nd circuit. Be sure it is a circuit with 12 gauge wire for 20 amps.
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Old 01-19-2025, 06:24 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by d23haynes57 View Post
First off why another 458? That is a bit of an outdated design and not true sine wave.
The 2nd output circuit may have other functionality so you can't just tie them together. You need an inverter with a single leg 30 amp pass through relay. What you may be able to do is take one circuit out of the sub panel and just move it to that 2nd circuit. Be sure it is a circuit with 12 gauge wire for 20 amps.
The compartment the inverter is in has hardly any room so I was worried anything different may not fit. Probably should have.

I don’t think the second circuit has different functionality, at least I couldn’t find it in the manual. The 2nd output is 15a and the 1st output is 20a circuit.

How would I take one circuit out of the sub panel and connect to the 2nd output? Can I leave breaker in the sub panel or would I need a whole second sub panel just for that 1 circuit that I’m moving ?

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2025, 09:17 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowder238 View Post
Hey guys have an interesting question,

I had a xantrex freedom 458 inverter that was fried by a repair shop fixing another issue.. got reimbursed but I purchased a new freedom 458 however this one has 2 external breakers on it and (2) ac outputs (1) ac input. My old inverter had no external breakers, and only (1) output that fed a small subpanel.

I hooked it up to the 20a output and all works, however I just was cooking dinner and tripped the inverter breaker… never happened on the other inverter. (Didn’t have breakers, and I think the output was 30-35a)

I am connected to shore power, 50a, however all my outlets run off the inverter sub panel. So here’s my question, can I connect both 20 and 15a inverter outputs together and connect to my sub panel?

No! Do not do this. The output of two breakers cannot be combined into one.

This would effectively (in my mind) allow the sub panel breakers to trip first rather than the inverter breaker.
The inverter sub panel has a 30a main breaker in the main panel.

I know it is probably best practice to install a second sub panel and move a breaker or 2 over and connect to the second output on inverter but there’s no more room to install a second one EASILY.

The model of Xantrex 458 that you have does not require a sub panel for either the 20 amp or 15 amp output. They are already protected.


Please let me know if this is frowned upon, hoping it is not!
See page 25 for 120 volt output instructions. The instructions are confusing.

https://xantrex.com/wp-content/uploa...ers-Manual.pdf

Connect the 20 amp breaker to the old sub panel. This will reduce available output to 20 amps where the previous model allowed 30 amps. Another circuit can still be connected to the 15 amp breaker output. No sub panel or additional circuit breaker is required.

You need a different model to get 30 amps out. Contact Xantrex support to see if the new inverter can be modified to eliminate the two built in circuit breakers. In this case a sub panel would be required.

Depending on what is in the old sub panel, you may not need a sub panel at all. This Xantrex model does not require a sub panel.

Basic requirements

The 20 amp Xantrex output requires a minimum of 12 AWG gauge wire.

The 15 amp Xantrex output requires a minimum of 14 AWG gauge wire.

Heavier gauge wire is okay.

The old Xantrex output required 10 AWG gauge wire. That is probably what joins the old Xantrex to the old sub panel. It is okay.

How many branch breakers are there in the old sub panel?
What are the current ratings? 20 amp or 15 amp?

A circuit connected to an old 20 amp branch breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 20 amp output.

A second circuit connected to an old 20 amp breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker. This will reduce current to this circuit by 5 amps.

A circuit connected to an old 15 amp branch breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker, but not to the new 20 amp breaker.

If there are more than two branch breakers in the old sub panel, then the old sub panel is still required. Connect the new Xantrex 20 amp output to the old sub panel. One circuit connected to a branch breaker may be removed from the old sub panel and connected to directly to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker.

If there is more than one 15 amp breaker in the old sub panel, then the old sub panel is still required. Connect the new 20 amp output to the sub panel.

One circuit connected to a branch breaker in the old sub panel can still be removed and connected to the new 15 amp output. You cannot connect a 15 amp branch circuit to a 20 amp output.
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Old 01-19-2025, 09:33 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Persistent View Post
See page 25 for 120 volt output instructions. The instructions are confusing.

https://xantrex.com/wp-content/uploa...ers-Manual.pdf

Connect the 20 amp breaker to the old sub panel. This will reduce available output to 20 amps where the previous model allowed 30 amps. Another circuit can still be connected to the 15 amp breaker output. No sub panel is required.

You need a different model to get 30 amps out. Contact Xantrex support to see if the new inverter can be modified to eliminate the two built in circuit breakers. In this case a sub panel would be required.

Depending on what is in the old sub panel, you may not need a sub panel at all. This Xantrex model does not require a sub panel.

Basic requirements

The 20 amp Xantrex output requires a minimum of 12 AWG gauge wire.

The 15 amp Xantrex output requires a minimum of 14 AWG gauge wire.

Heavier gauge wire is okay.

The old Xantrex output required 10 AWG gauge wire. That is probably what joins the old Xantrex to the old sub panel. It is okay.

How many branch breakers are there in the old sub panel?
What are the current ratings? 20 amp or 15 amp?

An old 20 amp branch breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 20 amp output.

A second old 20 amp breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker. This will reduce current to this circuit by 5 amps.

An old 15 amp branch breaker in the old sub panel can be removed and connected directly to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker, but not to the new 20 amp breaker.

If there are more than two branch breakers in the old sub panel, then the old sub panel is still required. Connect the new Xantrex 20 amp output to the old sub panel. One branch breaker may be removed from the old sub panel and connected to the new Xantrex 15 amp breaker.

If there is more than one 15 amp breaker in the old sub panel, then the old sub panel is still required. Connect the new 20 amp output to the sub panel.

One branch breaker in the old sub panel can still be removed and connected to the new 15 amp output. You cannot connect a 15 amp branch circuit to a 20 amp output.
Thanks so much for your reply!

So I have just attached a photo of my subpanel and the inverter. There are 2 15a branch breakers and a main 30a breaker.

So I can remove both and connect directly to or I can leave 1 attached to the sub panel and then remove the other and connect directly.

I suppose this still leaves me with less actual amp availability than previously.. right?

Before I could run microwave and air fryer for example (1 branch breaker) but now- that would probably trip the 20a inverter breaker

Am I understanding

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2025, 10:41 AM   #6
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Based on the limited information in the 458's manual the two circuit breakers are for 2 branch circuits. This is done so that an external sub panel (like you have) is not needed if there are only two branch circuits (you have four). What this tells me is that the inverter internals are exactly the same as one without the two branch breakers. If you look at how the breakers are wired you will most likely see that the line (input) to the two breakers are paralleled. If so you can simply eliminate the inverter breakers by connecting the 10 gauge (orange) romex that goes to your sub panel and connect it to the single wire that feeds both of the inverters branch breakers (disconnect this wire from the internal breakers). This would make your replacement 458 exactly like you're original. If you can obtain an internal schematic of the inverter this would help verify how the branch breakers are connected, although a visual inspection would suffice if you know what you are looking at.

Since you actually have four branch circuits in your sub panel you could move one of them to the 15 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter. This would leave the remaining three in your sub panel on the 20 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter. There is no need for an additional sub panel unless you want more than one circuit on the 15 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter.
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Old 01-19-2025, 11:47 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Steve-W View Post
Based on the limited information in the 458's manual the two circuit breakers are for 2 branch circuits. This is done so that an external sub panel (like you have) is not needed if there are only two branch circuits (you have four). What this tells me is that the inverter internals are exactly the same as one without the two branch breakers. If you look at how the breakers are wired you will most likely see that the line (input) to the two breakers are paralleled. If so you can simply eliminate the inverter breakers by connecting the 10 gauge (orange) romex that goes to your sub panel and connect it to the single wire that feeds both of the inverters branch breakers (disconnect this wire from the internal breakers). This would make your replacement 458 exactly like you're original. If you can obtain an internal schematic of the inverter this would help verify how the branch breakers are connected, although a visual inspection would suffice if you know what you are looking at.

Since you actually have four branch circuits in your sub panel you could move one of them to the 15 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter. This would leave the remaining three in your sub panel on the 20 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter. There is no need for an additional sub panel unless you want more than one circuit on the 15 amp internal branch breaker output of the inverter.

This makes a lot of since. Unfortunately since I have to remove the unit to take the cover off, I have decided to just return it and purchase the correct unit without the external breakers. This way it’s plug and play and should save me some headache.

I appreciate everyone’s help with this, and I sure do wish manufacturers didn’t put every outlet on one. I have a refer breaker in my main panel in the rv that does not control the refrigerator so I may use that breaker and put in a dedicated outlet that doesn’t go through inverter. This outlet I can use when on shore power and it would give me a good bit more freedom
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