Community Forums

Smitty77 · 01-16-2016, 10:41 AM

My bank of Lifeline's are soon to celebrate their 3rd anniversary. These are X's 4 L16's for 800AH, and have served us well. Only two times have they been down below 50% SOC, both times while the RV was into the shop for repairs/upgrades (A shop I know longer work with, for other reasons besides not keeping the rig plugged in as they said they would...). One time was 44% SOC for probably 3-4 days before I picked up the coach. (I had visited the shop, and it was 100% SOC for sure 3 days earlier, but it could have been 4 days - memory fade!). And then a 2nd time SOC reached 48% SOC when I picked the coach up. It had only been in the shop 3 days that time. Both times, I brought the bank back up to 100% SOC as soon as it was brought home.

I use the MS2812 on the AGM1 setting for Lifeline's, when the unit is plugged in. It is set to 'multi', as we also have an array of 1200W of Solar Panels, via the MidNite Classic 150, also set to Lifeline AGM settings. Both the Magnum and MidNite have the Temperature Sensor in the loop. And the MidNite has the WhzBang Jr. I use the BMK-Meter to do my primary monitoring of the battery condition.

Our normal usage over the last 3 years, is approximately a mix of 65-75% of the time shore power, and 25-35% boon docking. While boon docking, we typically are at between 70-80% SOC in the AM, after the coffee pot has brewed it's pot. (I wait 15-20 mins after the coffee is completed, then check the SOC) On maybe 2-4 times out of this three years, we've dipped into the high 60's SOC range in the AM. (Usually due to leaving some item plugged in drawing more power then normal

!)

OK - that was all of the background I can think of sharing, but wanted to give the history of this bank of Lifelines.

(And sorry for the long background history, but wanted the bank's lifetime of usage understood. And no, I have never done the Lifeline recommended yearly test of battery condition. So I have not numbers to know if the batteries have actual degradation. On our last 6 month trip, with higher amounts of boon docking then our norm, it seemed to me that SOC was on the lower side o the 70's. Where as before it was towards the top of the 70's. In this last year, we have added DirecTV an DVR, as well as Samsung Residential Fridge, so I felt the lower 70's SOC overnight was actually pretty good...)

My question - FINALLY! Is running a conditioner/equalizer cycle as sort of 'maintenance to combat sulfation' a good idea, or not?

Thanks for reading all of this, and appreciate any feedback or opinions

!

Smitty

dons2346 · 01-16-2016, 11:21 AM

I would not do anything to them. What you are seeing sounds prety normal.

I have 8D Lifelines that were installed in Jan '04 and they are acting pretty much like yours. I have no solar and I can go to bed with a 90-95% SOC and at 7:30am I will have 72-75% SOC. I run a residential refer with a ME 3000 hybrid inverter and maybe watch a little TV before bed time at 9:30 or so.

Mr_D · 01-16-2016, 11:30 AM

If I'm remembering correctly I can't even select an equalizer run when my inverter is set for AGM's, the setting is greyed out.

**CountryFit** · 01-16-2016, 04:09 PM

i used to have a freedom remote for flooded batteries. the remote is gone now as i no longer need it, but i still have the user manual. regarding equalizing, the manual says:

The Freedom Remote has a special charging mode that improves the condition of batteries. Equalizing helps maintain battery capacity and extends life by deliberately overcharging batteries for a short period of time. Do not equalize gel cell batteries.

i would say go ahead with equalizing.

BrianGlenn · 01-16-2016, 04:34 PM

Lifeline is one of the few AGM manufacturers that I have come across that do recommend equalization, if needed. Here is a link to one of the OEM pages.

15.5V for 8 hours after fully charged.

Previously I had lifelines and tried an equalization with my XANTREX inverter/charger. I recommend shutting off main battery disconnect to coach during the equalization - 15.5V to some 12V systems "may" over voltage some devices - I chose to not take the chance.

Hope this helps.
Brian

Smitty77 · 01-16-2016, 09:02 PM

Thanks all, appreciated the feedback!

I think I'll call and talk with Lifeline and Tom, a reformed Country Coach owner that sold this set to me. Nice guy, knowledgeable - and knows Lifeline's well. (And yeah, suspect I'll be told to do a test, to see what the actual shape is

! Suppose I'll take the time to do so.)

My thoughts, was to do a conditioner/equalization - as after three years, I can't help but believe that some sulfation has occurred - it's the nature of batteries. Then do the battery test, to confirm where things are. I hate to do the test first, then condition, then test again. (Each test cycle, does remove cycles of life. And with the the exceptions of the two times that I've been below 50% SOC, these tests are more usage then my norm.)

I have a buddy with a sailboat, and he has a charger that can be set to properly condition/equalize Lifelines. (Boaters usually are not 'plugged in' to shore power. So they really do 'murder the batteries' (Their term, not mine.). He conditions his Lifelines every year. (And he is better in their care then most boaters, as he makes a point to fully charge them once a week, via a Honda generator and his charger.)

I'll share if Lifeline or Tom has any enlightening insight for me

!

Best to all,
Smitty

jacwjames · 01-16-2016, 09:14 PM

I did an equalization last year on my batteries and ended up having problems with getting everything set back up the way it was suppose to be. In my case there are a lot of steps I had to go through.

Long story short I posted a question on the Moncoers Yahoo site and was given advice not to equalize but instead buy a Power Pulse unit to condition my house batteries. This recommendation was from a number of very senior members.

Here is a link
PP-12-L PowerPulse 12-Volt Battery Maintenance System

I bought a unit on ebay and installed, no idea if it will make a difference but a heck of a lot easier then equalizing.

Smitty77 · 01-17-2016, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacwjames

I did an equalization last year on my batteries and ended up having problems with getting everything set back up the way it was suppose to be. In my case there are a lot of steps I had to go through.

Long story short I posted a question on the Moncoers Yahoo site and was given advice not to equalize but instead buy a Power Pulse unit to condition my house batteries. This recommendation was from a number of very senior members.

Here is a link
PP-12-L PowerPulse 12-Volt Battery Maintenance System

I bought a unit on ebay and installed, no idea if it will make a difference but a heck of a lot easier then equalizing.

Thus may be the unit my boating pal was talking about. He said a few in his club, had added a 'gizmo' that was helping them get between 1/3 - 2/3 more life out of a battery. I asked him if he was talking about one of the solar panel driven Battery Tenders, as they both do a trickle charge and de-sulfate as needed. Had one our Bounder for both our coach Trojan T125's, and a second unit for our two 12V chassis batteries (I added a second battery, as reserve capacity from that stand point.) They did a great job of keeping both chassis and house batteries topped off. And I assume sulfating was not a problem too.

But I wonder how these kinds of devices would work with our larger banks of house batteries? 400AH is very common. And I know of many owners running with 4 to 5 8D's, and that it is a pretty good size battery bank. I'm not small at 800AH, and wonder if I'd need two of these, attaching them in set of two? (Admit I typed this without really thinking

! As my four 6V's are set up as one large 12V... So probably not practical to add multiple units(?).

I also was wondering about current draw in no Solar Panel conditions. <2% battery draw, is still a pretty heavy draw down from say a 800AH bank... (Or, if that was based upon average usage of say one 12V battery.)

See they have a few solar panel options, as does Battery Tender too.

So to be frank: Thanks for pointing me at these. But dang if it is not just another thing for me to now research

!

Maybe others will jump in with hand's on experiences with these kinds of de-sulfating pieces of equipment.

Best,
Smitty

jacwjames · 01-17-2016, 02:36 PM

I didn't bother to do much research as this was recommended by several people on the Monacoers group which was good enough for me. The cost was reasonable and extremely easy to install Time will tell if it helps my batter life.

nkgunner · 01-28-2016, 10:14 AM

Most of the class A guys have 4 or more...

Smitty77 · 01-28-2016, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkgunner

Most of the class A guys have 4 or more...

Would this be for:

Chassis X's 1 or 2, depending battery qty.

House X's each combo of 12V batteries

(So say 3 8D's 12V = 3 of the Pulse; 4 GC 6V = 2 Pulse's; 8 GC 6V = 4 pulses; etc.)

I have one CAT 8D 12V Maint Free Chassis battery. and 4 Lifeline L16's 6V batteries. So I would get a total of 3 Pulses. (One for chassis, and two for each of the 2 L16's.).

(And sorry for stating the obvious, but I've had a few emails on this, so thought my thinking this out here, would aid others too

!) (Especially if I'm wrong.)

And as an update on the question of equalizing. I did call and talk with Concord/Lifeline, and I'm going to do a battery test in Yuma next month, to see how my batteries are performing. Then all decide on to equalize or not. The gent I talked to said I'd probably not need too, and why do it if it is not needed, as it does use up Life Cycles. Will up date what I see when I've completed the test.

Oh, and the Concord/Lifeline gent said he could not recommend the pulse, said they had no in house testing to see if it would aid Lifeline on either faster charging or longer life. But, he also said he knew many from the boating community swear by them... So I should draw my own conclusion. And he confirmed, he personally did not think the would hurt the batteries, especially these big L16's.

As I'll be in Yuma next month, I'm going to stop in and meet Larry and gang at Starlight, think I'll ask him his opinions.... But as of now, I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and get one for at least the chassis 8D. I believe I'll be going the Lithium route when these house Lifeline's have had their last hurrah - hopefully 5-6 years out

! So, would not be using the others two pulses after that...

Best to all,
Smitty

dons2346 · 01-28-2016, 09:22 PM

You are looking for just 5-6 years out of Lifelines? Geez. I just replaced some Lifelines that were installed in Jan 2004. The only reason I changed them out is because they were beginning to show some leakage around the terminal posts

twinboat · 01-28-2016, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dons2346

You are looking for just 5-6 years out of Lifelines? Geez. I just replaced some Lifelines that were installed in Jan 2004. The only reason I changed them out is because they were beginning to show some leakage around the terminal posts

They are 3 years old now. I think he is looking for 5-6 more years of service.

Smitty77 · 01-29-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

They are 3 years old now. I think he is looking for 5-6 more years of service.

Yep, got my invoice on 1/13/2013, but did not pick up the order and get installed until towards the end of February.

The Solar Panel/MidNite Classic Controller as well as Inverter/Charger swap out to Magnum MS2812 did not take place until May 2013. So a couple of months with the OEM Inverter set to standard AGM setting (vs Magnum having the specific Lifeline AGM setting, as well as the MidNite Classic was also established with the Lifeline parameters.)

In May, coming up on the full battery/solar/inverter makeover, will the the three year mark. Pretty happy with the performance, and very pleased with the quality of the install by Temecula Valley RV. The owner, Erik, was great to work with, and his tech's really seemed to care about doing it right. Nice, neat install, with attention to detail. (Erik and TVRV, still have been super to work with. As problems do popup, as honest mistakes do occur, they have been very fair in their dealings with my wife and I. Sure, normal Souther California shop rates hurt - but they are sure in line with the area.)

Best to all,
Smitty