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07-07-2018, 09:23 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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~40Amp drawdown per night. Good/Bad:)!
We have a recently replaced bank of X's 4 L16's Lifeline's for 800AH of house power.
The coach has been parked in storage for the last 3 months with a 20A power supply. Due to building shading, the 1200W of panels get about 90 mins of solid sun, except for on cloudy days here along the coast.
I've the MidNite Classic 150 controller still on. And I've turned of the Magnum MS2812 Charger, while in storage.
I leave the Salesman switch on, as we keep the Samsung Residential Fridge running and stocked 7/24. I do have the LP detector off, as well as the Auto Leveling Sensor too. But of course, still have parasitic 12V draws on the battery.
I've noticed a pretty steady consumption of about 40Amps per night so about a 3.5A per hour parasitic draw.
The Bad = Well, that's 40 Amps out/in almost on a daily basis, even while on shore power. Not a lot, but DoD Life Cycles slowly being consumed.
The Good = Well, the about 90 mins of Solar in Bulk/Absorb/Float mode back up to 100% SOC each day, is keeping the Lifeline's exercised a little bit. (WhzBngJr option added, and I've set the Classic 150 to the Ending Amps of 4A, which is the Lifeline recommended value for my 800AH Bank.) This exercise, should reduce the slow build up of sulfate.
I also have a monthly reminder to 'exercise the batteries', which I do by setting the MS2812 Equalize Voltage down to he Lifeline's Absorb voltage level. And will run a 4 hour 'Absorb' voltage into the battery monthly. Doing this, to be sure gradual sulfation does not occur.
So why share this? Well I do have a Battery Minder that I could easily keep on, or set by time to come on, for the overnight parasitic draw down. It's float would keep the batteries at 100% SOC overnight. When we're not boon docking, which is down to about 15-20% of the time now, we're on shore power.
So trying to weight the Good against the Bad, of my approximate 40A in/out per night.
Leave it as is? Well, some exercise of the batteries. Hook up the Battery Minder? And it should keep me at 100% SOC overnight.
Pro's & Con's opinions welcomed !
TIA,
Smitty
(And note, I've posted before about the gradual walk down of my pervious bank of X's 4 L16's Lifeline's. The MS2812, even on the AGM1 (Lifeline) setting, has IMO a software flaw that is damaging to AGM's. Once the Charger has gone into Full Charge mode, it waits for the batteries voltage to drop down to 12.6V before restarting up. And then, it starts up in Float Mode (Vs Bulk/Absorb/Float cycle) and only runs for 4 hours. On a smaller bank, 4 hours of float might get a pair of AGM's back up to 100% SOC, but it does not on the larger bank of Lifeline's I have. And as luck would have it, for years while in storage, I'd turn off the Classic 150 so as to not overcook the battery bank. Had a 'Smart Charger' on via the MS2812 - so thought the bank was covered and being maintained properly. 757Driver, most often on the Entegra segment, pointed this MS2812 problem out on one of his threads. I called and talked with Magnum about it, and very nice Tech Support did concur that this is how the software is set up. Not good for Lifeline's for sure, and probably not good for most AGM's. Hopefully future Magnum units will have a customizable control of what to do when coming out of Full Charge mode.) (And not knocking Magnum. I'm pleased with the MS2812 overall, just part of my learning experience that Smart Charger's still require Owner Participation in Battery Management !)
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-07-2018, 10:29 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,925
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Is the fridge running off the shore connection or through the inverter? Wondering if the inverter isn't changing over to just passing the 120v AC through when it's present from shore power?
__________________
Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
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07-07-2018, 11:06 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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Off of shore connection. Have the inverter off while in storage, to reduce idle draw down too. Have the text notification sent, whenever shore power is lost, so I can go turn the inverter on. (We own a house next to us, that I park it the coach at when not traveling, so not a big deal to monitor it this way.)
I figure ~3.5A parasitic is not too bad. If I wanted to, I could pull fuses until I found other times I could add 'on/off' switches too. But from memory of another CC owner, he figured almost 1A was going support Carbon Monoxide, Glowing Light Switches, Sea Level, etc.
I could also just plug the Fridge into the 12G Ext Cord, and turn off Chassis and Sales Man Switches. But we look at our coach as our emergency escape pod for fires/earthquakes/politicians in the Southern California area... So we keep everything ready for rapid getting on the go !
Thanks,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-07-2018, 11:17 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 2,457
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I am confused: You say no shore power, inverter off, but residential fridge is on. Does it also run on LPG?
__________________
2008 Itasca 37H
2011 & 2012 Len & Pat's "One lap of America"
27K miles & 41 states in 13 months
Yellowstone Lake 6-1-2012
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07-07-2018, 01:14 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepill
I am confused: You say no shore power, inverter off, but residential fridge is on. Does it also run on LPG?
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Yep, my DW says I do that often. She claims someday a study will be done on Smitty Language, and she suspects it will prove the story about loose marbles in the brain!!!
I was trying to answer the question about what is power the fridge. It is from Shore Power 120V, not Inverter. So while we're plugged into shore power, even with the Inverter on, the fridge is still off of the Shore Power feed. With no Shore Power, the Inverter will feed the power.
And I mentioned that I while in storage mode, I keep the Inverter off, to reduce the 'at idle' amps that it draws.
Best,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-08-2018, 08:07 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St. Maries, Idaho
Posts: 959
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Smitty, have you checked your salesman switch solinoid to see if it’s warm/hot when it’s on? I’ve read they draw about 1.5 amps. I bypassed mine and installed a mechanical switch on the house batteries ground.
Bill
__________________
2003 Country Coach Intrigue 36'
Cummins ISL 400
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07-08-2018, 03:19 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sk
Posts: 201
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5% discharge which is replaced each day is not going to sulfate the battery bank. If you are plugged into shore power why not use the converter, or inverter/charger to provide the 12 volt needs?
__________________
Regards, Don
My ride is a 2005 Kustom Koach Class C 28'5" E-450, 256 watts Unisolar, 556 amp hours in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, Magnum 3000 watt PSW inverter.
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07-08-2018, 10:28 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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Bill - Will check the health of the Salesman Switch solenoid. Thanks for the tip.
Don - Well, I do run on a bit... But, Magnum MS2812, IMO, is not 'Smart Enough' to maintain a healthy Lifeline Battery. (I put a long footnote at the end of my post, about how it waits until 12.6V to reactivate the battery from a Full Charge status. That's a good size drop for a AGM/Lifeline battery. And, coming back to life and 'charging' - the 'Smart' MS2812 goes into 'Float Mode', for a max of 12 hours. Then shuts back into 'Full Charge' mode status. Repeat, repeat, repeat. BUT with a 800AH battery bank, 4 hours of 'Float' is not enough to replenish all of the AH's drained to the '12.6V' level. So, the bank does not get back to a 'True Full Charge', until an owner manually intervenes... Again, IMO, not a good thing...
-------
Appreciated input form you both !
But I'm wrestling with Using/Exercising the Bank with the -40A and then +40A on a regular basis is just using up Life Cycles. Or, is it helping by sort of keeping the mats 'stirred up' some, from a sulfate build up perspective?
Best,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-08-2018, 10:48 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sk
Posts: 201
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Hi Smitty77,
My Magnum 3012 doesn't behave the same way as your 2800. I use the custom battery settings on the remote. Do you have the remote?
Can you operate the 12 volt side of the RV directly from the Magnum (i.e. with a battery disconnect switch)?
That way the batteries would receive their maintenance charging from the solar installation.
__________________
Regards, Don
My ride is a 2005 Kustom Koach Class C 28'5" E-450, 256 watts Unisolar, 556 amp hours in two battery banks 12 volt batteries, Magnum 3000 watt PSW inverter.
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07-09-2018, 08:08 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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Hi Don,
When in storage, I now leave the Solar on, and the MidNite Classic150 with WhzBngJr module, allows me to stop solar charging based upon Ending Amps (4A for our 800AH bank.). So that part is going well. (In storage, due to shadows, I only get about 90 mins of good sun a day. And occasional coastal clouds will result in me every few days turning on the MS2812 in Equalize Mode, but with voltage set to Absorb values. And that tops of the battery bank well while in storage. I leave the Magnum Charger in standby.)
But was thinking like now, we just hit the road, and will be Shore Power to Shore Power most of the first 6 weeks or so. By having a Battery Minder on while parked and on Shore Power, the ~40A overnight drawdown would not take place. So that would be no -40A and then +40A going on daily...
Not a big deal, and recall many people I follow saying it's good to exercise the battery some, vs remaining them at full float like charger for longer periods. Have not decided what I'll do yet. Probably 'think about it some more !'.
Best to you, and all,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-09-2018, 10:07 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,465
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Smitty,
Are you saying that if you select a Final Charge to “Float” it will only stay there for 12 hours and then revert to Final Charge “Multi”?
Can’t see why it would work this way. Should stay in the final charge mode that you selected.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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07-10-2018, 09:02 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: FT on the Road
Posts: 3,839
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I have a 6A parasitic draw. so 3.5 is not bad.
I have lithium so I set the final charge to silent. It stays that way after completion should I manually start a bulk cycle.
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I don't subscribe to threads I reply to so will not see your reply to my comment. Drop me a direct message if you want a reply from me.
Cheers!
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07-10-2018, 09:54 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757driver
Smitty,
Are you saying that if you select a Final Charge to “Float” it will only stay there for 12 hours and then revert to Final Charge “Multi”?
Can’t see why it would work this way. Should stay in the final charge mode that you selected.
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Don - As much as I do go on, I still did not do a good job of describing my thoughts on 'Just plugging in a separate Battery Minder (128 CEC) to maintain float !
Your posts on the MS2812 and Full Charge in relation to AGM vs Wet Cells, is one that helped me understand that I had 'Caused my own damage on my old bank of Lifeline's.
I do currently have the MS2812 set to Final Charge Multi, as I'm now leaving the Solar Controller on at all times. It's at times when I'm in shading on a regular basis (As when stored at while not traveling, and limited good solar support.). Or say when traveling, and in a shaded spot for a several days. That I'm wondering if just leaving the Battery Minder in the mix. (It's in place, as I had problems with first the Echo charger. And then my Smart Battery Combiner, had an inline fuse that would blow frequently. Before I figured out it was a bad fuse holder (NON MAGNUM, just the luck of the draw for a blade fuse holder to have a mold defect ! Installed by the tech doing our install.). Before I figured out what was going on, and fixed it, I went ahead and installed the Battery Minder to have as redundancy.).
Yes, I could go in and just change the profile on the Magnum Final Charge setting from Multi, to Float - and would probably do well. But, my thinking is the Battery Minder is easy to plug in, and basically walk away and forget. The shifting from Magnum setting Multi, to Float, and back - based upon travel locations -well, pretty good chance I'd mess this up and forget where I'd left things.
And I kept hearing input that 'exercising' a bank on a regular basis, keeps the 'juices' flowing (And, hopefully prevents sulfate build up...).
Yep, as wordy as I get, I still did not get my question across well !
I also again want to point out that I like and respect Magnum. It's hard to sell a product, to support all conditions. And my comment about Smart Battery Charger's not being so Smart - was not fair to Magnum. It was more of a message, that owner's (Me!), need to take active engagement in maintenance of their House and Chassis batteries. Or, be prepared to change them out earlier then necessary. (Wanted to correct, that I was not trying to slam Magnum. I would like to see more options in regard to Full Charge logic, but admit it's not something that many owner's would 'optimize'.)
Best to you, and all,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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07-11-2018, 08:01 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77
Don - As much as I do go on, I still did not do a good job of describing my thoughts on 'Just plugging in a separate Battery Minder (128 CEC) to maintain float !
Your posts on the MS2812 and Full Charge in relation to AGM vs Wet Cells, is one that helped me understand that I had 'Caused my own damage on my old bank of Lifeline's.
I do currently have the MS2812 set to Final Charge Multi, as I'm now leaving the Solar Controller on at all times. It's at times when I'm in shading on a regular basis (As when stored at while not traveling, and limited good solar support.). Or say when traveling, and in a shaded spot for a several days. That I'm wondering if just leaving the Battery Minder in the mix. (It's in place, as I had problems with first the Echo charger. And then my Smart Battery Combiner, had an inline fuse that would blow frequently. Before I figured out it was a bad fuse holder (NON MAGNUM, just the luck of the draw for a blade fuse holder to have a mold defect ! Installed by the tech doing our install.). Before I figured out what was going on, and fixed it, I went ahead and installed the Battery Minder to have as redundancy.).
Yes, I could go in and just change the profile on the Magnum Final Charge setting from Multi, to Float - and would probably do well. But, my thinking is the Battery Minder is easy to plug in, and basically walk away and forget. The shifting from Magnum setting Multi, to Float, and back - based upon travel locations -well, pretty good chance I'd mess this up and forget where I'd left things.
And I kept hearing input that 'exercising' a bank on a regular basis, keeps the 'juices' flowing (And, hopefully prevents sulfate build up...).
Yep, as wordy as I get, I still did not get my question across well !
I also again want to point out that I like and respect Magnum. It's hard to sell a product, to support all conditions. And my comment about Smart Battery Charger's not being so Smart - was not fair to Magnum. It was more of a message, that owner's (Me!), need to take active engagement in maintenance of their House and Chassis batteries. Or, be prepared to change them out earlier then necessary. (Wanted to correct, that I was not trying to slam Magnum. I would like to see more options in regard to Full Charge logic, but admit it's not something that many owner's would 'optimize'.)
Best to you, and all,
Smitty
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Understand your line of thinking now. I see no problem in leaving the battery minder on instead of switching final charge back and forth.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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