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Old 11-17-2020, 07:47 PM   #1
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Alternatives to lithium-ion battery low temperature limitations

There are several new batteries either on the market or under development.
https://www.gridtential.com/technology/
https://webstore.totalbattery.com/category-s/2147.htm
are the two that most interest me.
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Old 11-17-2020, 09:38 PM   #2
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Relion solved the low temperature (below freezing) charging issue in September of 2018. I have 2 of their 100Ah LT Series batteries. Since October 2019.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300712089.html

[Mod Edit]
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterbagoal View Post
Relion solved the low temperature (below freezing) charging issue in September of 2018. I have 2 of their 100Ah LT Series batteries. Since October 2019.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300712089.html

[Mod Edit]
[Mod Edit] I knew of the heater inside this battery, what I posted eliminates that extra charger draw. It is not a solution it is a work-around for the same battery. That is not the only Li-ion battery to use the internal heater.

The SIO2/ Silicone battery is totally new technology, as is the hybrid Silicone/Lead.
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Old 11-18-2020, 07:22 AM   #4
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There do seem to be some Lithium batteries (LiFePO4) that now allow charging at lower temperatures without the need for a heater, though they still need a heater at below about 23F - 25F. As to the rest most of these alternatives do have other downsides to there use, charging inefficiency, vibration sensitivity, etc.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:32 AM   #5
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Flooded nicad batteries are spec'd to about -20F.

Seems though in an RV application the elephant in the room is keeping the water lines from freezing, if you can do that you can figure out a place to keep storage batteries at or above freezing.

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Old 11-18-2020, 10:38 AM   #6
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I will put up with the heating of the battery compartment my battleborn's are in. The 600 lbs weight savings over lead acid or silicon dioxide batteries is worth it.
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Old 11-18-2020, 10:59 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray,IN View Post
[Mod Edit] I knew of the heater inside this battery, what I posted eliminates that extra charger draw. It is not a solution it is a work-around for the same battery. That is not the only Li-ion battery to use the internal heater.

The SIO2/ Silicone battery is totally new technology, as is the hybrid Silicone/Lead.
My comment was intended as tongue in cheek, but the smiley I thought I had added after the text, didn't appear for reasons unknown.
Sorry, no offense.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:07 PM   #8
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Firefly Oasis is popular with boaters. They don't have to be fully charged, which saves diesel. Strong Performance in Extreme Cold and Heat– performance range is -20° C to 50° C



https://www.coastalclimatecontrol.co...g-reveals.html


https://www.amazon.com/exceptional-p.../dp/B078GKKN17
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:17 PM   #9
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I was concerned about my LiFePo4 battery temperature getting too low. It's in a compartment under the front of my fifth wheel where it gets very little heat from the inside of the RV. The compartment floor (only direct outside exposure) has 2" of foam. I was surprised to find over several years that the battery internal cell temperature (provided by BMS via BT) never got close to the outside temperatures. I've seen only mid-40's in the battery from low 20's outside. These were night temperatures; day temps were higher, 50's or more.

My point is that even an LiFePo4 has enough mass to limit temperature drop due to heat-flow to the outdoors and may be sufficient to avoid 32F in many cases. YMMV.

Boxing the battery with R Max insulation on all sides would surely limit battery temperature drop even more. And I think keep it cooler in hot weather since heat generated in an LiFePo4 battery due to load current is very small and heat from ambient is the larger cause of battery high temperatures.
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Old 11-21-2020, 10:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post
I was concerned about my LiFePo4 battery temperature getting too low. It's in a compartment under the front of my fifth wheel where it gets very little heat from the inside of the RV. The compartment floor (only direct outside exposure) has 2" of foam. I was surprised to find over several years that the battery internal cell temperature (provided by BMS via BT) never got close to the outside temperatures. I've seen only mid-40's in the battery from low 20's outside. These were night temperatures; day temps were higher, 50's or more.

My point is that even an LiFePo4 has enough mass to limit temperature drop due to heat-flow to the outdoors and may be sufficient to avoid 32F in many cases. YMMV.

Boxing the battery with R Max insulation on all sides would surely limit battery temperature drop even more. And I think keep it cooler in hot weather since heat generated in an LiFePo4 battery due to load current is very small and heat from ambient is the larger cause of battery high temperatures.
..
Have to agree, have my 6 lithiums in an insulated bay along with 2 solar controllers. Also have a remote readout thermometer in the coach that reads that compartment, put in a 200 watt cube heater on a 32 degree thermocube just in case. Only been in ambient temps in the 20's but compartment temps never got below 40 F.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:14 PM   #11
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Firefly Oasis - Read the warranty. It degrades 50% for every 15f above 80f.
Ok for boats keeping them below water line but not for my TT in southwest.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:17 PM   #12
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Silicateisalt (lead crystal) looks promising.
https://shopsolarkits.com/collection...34361368510604
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:44 PM   #13
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Looks interesting, but what is the price, also note it says sold out, also at 100 pounds each these are not exactly light.
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Old 02-23-2021, 04:36 PM   #14
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I'm very interested in new battery technology. Prices are steadily dropping on LiFePO4 batteries.
Our problem here in the southwest is high temps, not low. We routinely have three months out of the year with over 100 degree temps.
I thought of adding a duct from inside the coach to the battery compartment and pulling air conditioned air from inside. But then I would have to run the A/C system 24/7 during the summer months and that's not possible.
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