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Old 03-20-2020, 12:14 PM   #1
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Costco Special Lithium Battery

Lion Energy Safari UT1300 for $699.99 - Thru 3/22, while supply lasts.

Features:
- 12.8V, 105Ah, 1344Wh
- Can be Used in either Series or Parallel Configuration
- 150A Continuous Draw, 100A Charge
- Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery Chemistry for Long Life and Reliable Energy Storage
- 3,500 Full Depth of Discharge Lifecycles

Costco online add...

Best to all,
Smitty
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Old 03-20-2020, 12:24 PM   #2
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Nice price. I am already set with my four battle born batteries.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:41 PM   #3
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Just took a quick look at their Product Manual, and there are some caveats in the care and feeding section about overcharging and undercharging. Maybe their BMS isn't quite as protective of some basic functions, like the BB, Relion, Renogy, or other pricier lithium batteries? Also noted some storage considerations that sounded similar to caveats for storing lead acid batteries.
Just struck me as odd, those two items. My Relion's BMS prevents over charging and over discharging based on preset voltages, and they also prevent some other "user error" stuff, so they're perfect for me (idiot proof ).
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty77 View Post
Lion Energy Safari UT1300 for $699.99 - Thru 3/22, while supply lasts.

Features:
- 12.8V, 105Ah, 1344Wh
- Can be Used in either Series or Parallel Configuration
- 150A Continuous Draw, 100A Charge
- Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery Chemistry for Long Life and Reliable Energy Storage
- 3,500 Full Depth of Discharge Lifecycles

Costco online add...

Best to all,
Smitty
Good find. By my math, that is the exact same cost for an AGM battery like this: https://batteryguys.com/collections/...feline-gpl-31t

Yes the Lifeline is 1/2 the price, but you can only use 1/2 the capacity, it works out to be the same price.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:50 PM   #5
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Appreciate the cautions... I should have pointed out that I've done zero investigation into these. It was the price point for 105AH's that caught my attention...
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:27 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sipester View Post
Good find. By my math, that is the exact same cost for an AGM battery like this: https://batteryguys.com/collections/...feline-gpl-31t



Yes the Lifeline is 1/2 the price, but you can only use 1/2 the capacity, it works out to be the same price.


In terms of size, weight, and expected life, thereís no comparison. For example, the Lifelines are 64 lbs each, so 128 lbs of the Lifeline batteries would equate to 23 lbs of the Lion Energy.
IMO, itís a great deal.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:52 AM   #7
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Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered 4 for less than the price of 3 Battleborns.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:14 PM   #8
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In for one. Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:56 AM   #9
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Hereís a video from Will Prowse where he compares a Battle Born lithium battery with the Lion Energy UT-1300.

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Old 03-30-2020, 12:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Yosemite77 View Post
Hereís a video from Will Prowse where he compares a Battle Born lithium battery with the Lion Energy UT-1300.

I saw another thread referencing the now gone Costco social on the Lion UT-1300. And followed BobC's link to Will's Youtube.

His assessments takeaways were that the Lion 1300 was an improvement on the 1200. But he was less then confident that the Lion UT-1300 would fend well in a vibration and less then ideal waterproofing situation. He felt for stationary usage, as in a home battery bank, they'd probably do fine. He felt the Battle Born was a more robust battery in build, and especially liked the posts of the BB's for more higher power usage.

I have no horse in this race. I still monitor the thread on Lithium, and heck even Carbon too, as I hope to have 5-7 years more life out of my 14 month old bank of X's 4 Lifeline L16's. I shared the link, because I believe that was a very good price point for the UT-1300, and with a warranty also being pretty good - might have worked well for others, even in RV applications.

I've kept LifeBlue's LowTemp offerings, as well as Lithonic's offerings too, as my current two most likely directions in the future. But even 2 years is a long time when it comes to the ongoing batteries, and approaches, coming to market... So who the heck knows what might happen in 5-7 years!

Key things to me, is not just the price point, but the safety and longevity of a product. And not just 'manufacturer/marketing' statements - but third party testing and or official certification as in UL... I'll pay more, and do not mind a bit extra weight - for added safety. And I do like the 'component separation' that some manufacturers are going with. Where say an external BMS might work with very minimal/KISS internal battery setup.

We'll see what the next few years brings along!

Best to all,
Smitty
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:33 PM   #11
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Hmm.. no dog in this pony show..
From what I've been told.. the Lithiums do not fair well in cold climates..Any truth to this???
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Old 03-30-2020, 05:20 PM   #12
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Hmm.. no dog in this pony show..
From what I've been told.. the Lithiums do not fair well in cold climates..Any truth to this???
Hey Saddlesore - Hope the U320 is treating you well!

Yes and no on Lithiums on both Cold and Hot!

For cold, some manufactures are including heating pad like capability in some to their offerings. (Two I know of are LifeBlue and Lithonic's.) My view on this is that with minor modifications of a battery compartment, they can be made pretty well protected from the cold. If the compartment includes the Chassis Battery, it requires a shift to AGM (Though some Lithium manufactures are also saying their batteries are able to hand engine starting too. Have not researched if they mean like for gas engines, or smaller diesels, and I do not recall seeing any info stating CCA values.). Other's are not paying extra funds for the built in battery heating, but are adding heating pads into the bays, or small cubed heaters, to augment for cold conditions. So for now, with proper planning, I don't think the below 32F is unsolvable. (And of course, some are finding places inside of their coaches to place the Lithiums, helping for both Cold and Hot.).

For hot, well this is harder to solve while using the convention battery basement storage. I've confirmed that I have good access from below our Bedroom's dress cabinets, to drop two 4" or maybe 5" diameter hoses to the top of the basement battery bay. My thoughts were I'd add a pancake fan pulling air from the rear bedroom down to the battery basement, and then another sucking the air back out of the basement and distributing it back into the bedroom. This with the rear AC running, some cooler air would make it to the battery bay. Enough? Not sure. And would it be too much to add the heat from a battery bay to the rear zone's cooling demands? Not sure. But, have thought of doing it. But that was about 2 1/2 years ago, when I had planned to swap to Lithium when my AGM's went out. My first bank of Lifeline L16's went out earlier then I had anticipated, and it was self inflicted by myself. While working with Magnum and Lifeline to try and understand 'What happened?' - Lifeline stepped up and made me an offer I could not refuse on replacement batteries. (This was over 5 1/2 year old Lifeline's, and I did not expect, or ask, for assistance. IMO, Lifeline is a class act company. Good product, and they go out of their way on customer support. Salute to them!).

To me, at least for how and where we use our coach. It's the heat that is my main concern for health and long living Lithiums. When Southwest temperatures are up above 110 - very easy to see a harder working battery bay getting into temps that are not healthy for the batteries. (And even at below 'max temp cutoff', longevity is impacted (And the same for Lead and AGM's too.) by the higher temps.

I have no idea what the future will bring on new batteries. But sure follow things. As I recall while we talked at Premier RV Services, you had the big brother ISM to my ISL(?) - so 'adequate power reserves' for you. One of my main reasons for wanting to shift to Lithiums, was to shed some weight, as our ISL is while more the adequate the majority of the time, I'd like more power for if needed, and I also like the larger displacement Jake Compression Braking HP that the bigger displacement engines offer over the 8.9's.

So yes, and no! And much depends upon protection from cold, and heat, strategies... (Heat pads. Extra insulation for cold, and heat protection in the bay itself. Thermocouple triggered fans to exhaust hot air outside of the bay. Possibly integration with in coach air space via the mentioned hose approach with pancake fans. And of course, heading to warmer, and or cooler, climates would help too!)

Best to you, and rubber side down!
Smitty
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Old 03-30-2020, 06:32 PM   #13
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While this is somewhat Moot at this point as the Costco deal is over and the going price is ~$799 for the Lion 1300's at this time.

That being said there are some instances where the smaller size of the Lions could make a difference for some. Will's comments refer to use of 4/0 cabling and the smaller lugs of the Lion vs BB.

I actually have 8 Lion 1300's installed in a very well secured area and have wired them with 4/0 cabling. I upgraded the factory bolts to high-quality 6MM bolts and torque them with a torque wrench.

I was able to get mine for ~$200 less each than the BB's even at the Escapees price of $875 so on 8 that adds up to $1600, and more importantly, they fit in a space that would only accommodate 6 of the larger BBs.

I'm not saying that are better, but I am saying that properly installed and cared I'm confident that these will work for us and I was able to add 840Ah for the same price/space/weight as 600Ah of BB.

It was our decision and I'm not saying it is better or makes more sense, simply that it worked for us
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Old 03-30-2020, 08:08 PM   #14
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Paul65k, what torque setting did you use on the batteries? I was just looking at the manual, and couldnít find it. Also, what size lugs for the 4/0 cable? I have 4 batteries on order that should be here any day now.
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