Community Forums

radar · 10-16-2020, 11:52 AM

Hi folks. For those considering an EV for their next tow vehicle or personal vehicle. Many have questions. This may be of some use. Heads up. Although it is not old some of the info is already out of date as charging speeds are already faster and networks already more extensive than some of the graphics they use.

Feel free to ask any questions on real world use etc. We are long time EV drivers and familiar with the topic. We are not experts.

Cheers, and hope you find this informative.

https://youtu.be/OpTOKKKGWV8

Pigman1 · 10-18-2020, 09:47 AM

OK...Academically interesting but if it doesn't fit how you live and drive it's still WAAAAY in the future. Although my local driving needs where I live could be met by a home station, what happens when I want to visit family in Florida (DE to FL) as I just did? I saw one or two charging points in the Orlando area and NONE near the places I stayed along my route or in Florida. There is no way I could have run my 600-700 mile drive a day with current equipment and be sure of a charge station at night. 100 rooms in a motel with a 100 unit charging station??? In every motel??? Furthermore, what happens in the west coast during the rolling blackouts and brownouts when 1 to 10 million vehicles are plugged in as the sun goes down. A few years ago we had a local ice storm in our home area and we were out of power for 9 days. Grid and generating capacity are VERY VERY large problems that very little attention is being paid to and even less actual building is being done. The sun doesn't always shine, nor does the wind always blow. Offshore wind farms face visual pollution claims from the public and the "save the birds" groups fight land based windmills. The "greens" want the power plants shut down or so severely limited the cost of power will be insurmountable.

Until just a few of these type of problems are even begun to be addressed, EV's will have a very small nitch market in very specific geographical areas for a limited audience. True, the government will steal my tax dollars to attempt to force the public toward the technology, but until you can get my 50,000 lb RV pulling an 8,500 lb toad on 700 mile drive days to Alaska, I'm afraid I will not be an "early innovator". Oh yeah, where's the next charge station on the Alaska Highway? Oops, just one in Dawson Creek. 2 or 3 hook up points I believe.

radar · 10-18-2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigman1

OK...Academically interesting but if it doesn't fit how you live and drive it's still WAAAAY in the future. Although my local driving needs where I live could be met by a home station, what happens when I want to visit family in Florida (DE to FL) as I just did? I saw one or two charging points in the Orlando area and NONE near the places I stayed. There is no way I could have run my 600-700 mile drive a day with current equipment and be sure of a charge station at night. 100 rooms in a motel with a 100 unit charging station??? Furthermore, what happens in the west coast during the rolling blackouts and brownouts when 1 to 10 million vehicles are plugged in as the sun goes down. A few years ago we had a local ice storm in our home area and we were out of power for 9 days. Grid and generating capacity are VERY VERY large problems that very little attention is being paid to and even less actual building is being done. The sun doesn't always shine, nor does the wind always blow. Offshore wind farms face visual pollution claims from the public and the "save the birds" groups fight land based windmills. The "greens" want the power plants shut down or so severely limited the cost of power will be insurmountable.

Until just a few of these type of problems are even begun to be addressed, EV's will have a very small nitch market in very specific geographical areas for a limited audience. True, the government will steal my tax dollars to attempt to force the public toward the technology, but until you can get my 50,000 lb RV pulling an 8,500 lb toad on 700 mile drive days to Alaska, I'm afraid I will not be an "early innovator". Oh yeah, where's the next charge station on the Alaska Highway? Oops, just one in Dawson Creek. 2 or 3 hook up points I believe.

Yah. I’m not up on the situation in your country other than the west coast where we travel. You’ll have to dig for those answers using google or maybe the charge apps etc.

Where we live infrastructure is good in the places we travel and it seems to be growing quite quickly and in tune with the growth rate of EV sales which is quite steep here. It is estimated this year 15 percent of all new vehicles sold in 2020 will be EV’s. Last year it was 9 percent. There is also an abundance of hydro here so not a significant challenge for BC Hydro. Every region will have its own hurdles to overcome.

We typically don’t travel more than 700 or 800 kilometers in a day so can’t really comment on what a 600 or 700 mile per day trip would be like. There are probably Tesla owners forums or clubs that could better answer that question in your region.

I thought the charge primer may be interesting for those with questions on home charging (where the vast majority of charging is done) as well as DC fast charging standards, practices and procedures. It uses a little dated info but is technically accurate for the most part.

Hope you find answers to your questions.

Cheers.

jcussen · 10-18-2020, 11:29 AM

For Tesla anyway, you can drive almost anywhere just by using the Tesla supercharger network. https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
The beauty of this system is that when you enter a destination on your navigation screen, it will tell you where you need to stop and recharge.

Goodspike · 10-18-2020, 11:33 AM

I didn't buy a new Ford Ranger due to concerns about range when towing in very rural areas. It's going to be a long time before I have an EV to towl--probably I won't live that long.

radar · 10-18-2020, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I didn't buy a new Ford Ranger due to concerns about range when towing in very rural areas. It's going to be a long time before I have an EV to towl--probably I won't live that long.

Well, everybody has different needs. You have to get what suits you.

I think the coming crop of electric half tons will have some decent towing performers. But many don’t tow, and there will be some significant operational cost advantages to electric half tons.

JMHO

Ray,IN · 10-23-2020, 07:56 PM

radar where are you located if not in the U.S.A.?

radar · 10-23-2020, 07:58 PM

The interior of British Columbia Canada.

Cliffy · 10-23-2020, 09:28 PM

The unasked or answered questions=

What is the life expediency of the battery pack?
What will be the cost of a replacement battery pack?
What will be the value of the vehicle at the battery end of life time?

Postulation? There will be thousands of used EVs on the used market with dead battery packs

radar · 10-23-2020, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliffy

The unasked or answered questions=

What is the life expediency of the battery pack?
What will be the cost of a replacement battery pack?
What will be the value of the vehicle at the battery end of life time?

Postulation? There will be thousands of used EVs on the used market with dead battery packs

I’m not familiar with all the manufacturers so can’t answer some of your questions in a comprehensive manner.

Most manufacturers have 8 to 10 year warranties on their battery to 70 percent capacity. Tesla expects there batteries to last for the life of the car which is 14 years in North America. The oldest Tesla’s are around 10 years old now and if the curve continues the batteries should perform as expected. And this is on 10 year old technology. Right now the batteries are rated to last 500,000 km but the new crop they are just starting to put into production are supposed to be million kilometers batteries. You can find information on this technology leaking out now.

Unknown what the price is, or more to the point what it will be as battery prices are dropping. The original Tesla batteries were 15000 bucks. Ouch. No idea now.

No idea on what a 12 or 15 year old car will be. Ask me in 11 years.

. We sold our first EV after 4.5 years. It lost a full third of its value. We are now a one car couple as I am almost retired and don’t need two vehicles in the household...or at least right now.

I know you can buy and have installed rebuilt leaf batteries from aftermarket rebuilders for 5000 bucks. They are smaller batteries though.

Hope that helps.

Cheers.

radar · 10-23-2020, 09:59 PM

I found this. Good article on module pricing. But again. Who knows what the price will be in 8 years after the warranty is over. The most commonly sold EV is around 37500 dollars. My guess is probably a third of that cost is the battery. Not an expert.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.inte...ound-5000-7000