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Old 07-21-2021, 12:28 AM   #15
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I've been following threads and educating myself on LiFePO4 batteries for the last couple of years and, although I was initially skeptical, I've turned the corner and now acknowledge their advantages, both short and long term.

However, I'm in agreement with those who've posted about them not being for everyone and they're clearly not a "no brainer" as I read in another thread.

Personally my MH has been sitting for over a year due to COVID and other issues and I'm grateful that I don't have $2k worth of LiFePO4s sitting there. They may or may not be in my future. In the meantime, my 6V batteries are doing just fine.
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:37 AM   #16
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For people who store their coach more days than they use it..... FLA would seem to be better b/c as a mature technology, there is much less chance of them spontaneously combusting.

LiPO are not bad, but it can still happen. The cheaper the setup, the higher the chances of Chinesium components that don't live up to the ratings suggested on the tin.
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:45 AM   #17
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I get what he is saying within the context of the occasional user.

People really need to do an honest energy audit before upgrading their power systems and make an honest assessment of their number of times they'll actually use the trailer

Yes!
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Old 07-21-2021, 12:47 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by geordi View Post
For people who store their coach more days than they use it..... FLA would seem to be better b/c as a mature technology, there is much less chance of them spontaneously combusting.

LiPO are not bad, but it can still happen. The cheaper the setup, the higher the chances of Chinesium components that don't live up to the ratings suggested on the tin.

Didn't even know that was a thing....
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Old 07-21-2021, 06:30 AM   #19
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I always look at the long game. For those that enjoy the performance aspects of lithium, namely flat voltage and rapid recharge and are willing to pay for it, then the rest probably doesn't matter and that's fine. The cost per Ah though I think is quite volatile, even more so than lead. If one were to use up all the service life a given lithium has to offer then they're the clear winner all the way around. But you have to use it up to get there and I would offer that especially for "typical" RV use you'll never get there from here. You'll sell the rig or the batteries will age out before you come close to realizing their service potential, possibly making them more expensive than lead. You'll still get the benefits they offer which some will consider worth the cost but especially for someone like me ("typical") that would not only have to buy the lithiums but also refit the RV charging equipment I would be spending a lot of money to solve a problem I don't have. $200 for a pair of GC-2's every 5 years or so checks the box, and everything works. It's all about the application and it's great there's finally something better than lead coming around, but it's not quite a universal replacement.

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Old 07-21-2021, 01:44 PM   #20
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SJ-Chris,

When we were working we spent less than 30 days a year camping, yet that is where I learned most of my experience. I'm easily guessing most battery failures happen to those who rarely camp and therefore forget about maintaining their batteries.

I learned my lesson about buying "inexpensive deep cycle lead acid batteries" that are anything but "keep it simple". Been There Done That!

Many vehicle charge systems won't keep it charged to 90% for weekend, low-mileage campers. That's why so many choose to install DC to DC charging. Here in Minnesota and other states a significant number or weekenders don't even go 100 miles. In 2004 I completely rewired the charge system in our Honda Odyssey to actually provide enough current to decently charge our batteries. The wires supplied by most car companies are too small (12 gauge or smaller). I used 8 gauge, but 10 gauge is tolerable.

We inherited a Yamaha generator with one camper and will never have another generator for many reasons. It seems with the advent of solar people are less tolerant of generators. I've seen a couple of vicious arguments, and many times witnessed other campers telling genny users about generator hours.

We chose to have enough solar and don't need a genny or DC to DC. The extra solar cost way less that both the generator and DC to DC combined. I am open minded enough to understand why some want DC to DC and/or a generator, but their needs are different than ours

Finally, I guarantee you that if you drop your lead acid batteries to 20% DOD they won't last four years, much less the 15 you wrote.

Food for thought,

Perry
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Old 07-21-2021, 02:09 PM   #21
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Long ago, I used to wrench for a living. And so I bought the best tools I could find. I still have my Snap-On wrenches half-a-century later. They're amazing. They made my work easier, and they made me money, even though they cost five times what a Craftsman tool would cost.
Years ago Craftsman had a line of tools that were every bit as quality as Snap-On. I did snap one Craftsman breaker bar using a 5' cheater, but that's all. OTOH, Craftsman had some lower quality tools that weren't so robust. I still have all my Craftsman tools today.

Enjoy,

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Old 07-22-2021, 06:40 AM   #22
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My main problem with solar - I don't want to park in the sun. Most places I go are shaded for the most part anyway so even a roof full of solar isn't going to fill the gap. I'm not going to schlep around a stack of portable panels and mess with that either. If I park in the sun around here that RV becomes an oven so I'm running the genset and AC to make it tolerable, making the idea of whatever the panels are putting out a moot point. I live in one of the best places in the country for solar and for me it's a solution seeking a suitable problem. Run the genset as needed and the RV is serving my needs vs me serving the RV. Those that have a hands-off solar system have invested a significant amount of time, effort and money to bring it to that point, which for a weekender like me is far beyond my budget and attention span. No question that solar can work for some people in some places but like the idea of lithium batteries, it's not a universal solution.

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Old 07-22-2021, 07:20 AM   #23
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Years ago Craftsman had a line of tools that were every bit as quality as Snap-On.
There are entire forums devoted to arguing this one point, so I'll just take the chicken's way out and say that my life's motto remains "the winner is the guy who dies with the most tools!"



(I have way more Craftsman tools than Snap-On tools. They are quite good. But for the wrenches . . . )
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:42 AM   #24
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I don’t understand the objective of this thread. Some owners, of course don’t need to make the investment in upgraded electrical systems. Many, and I suppose most who visit this forum will have an enhanced RV experience by upgrading. I think everyone knows what category they fall into. So, if you’ve spent let’s say $20 or more on a TT, or $60k or more on a MH, most people won’t equivocate about spending a couple of thousand more to totally expand their RV experience
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:03 AM   #25
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My main problem with solar - I don't want to park in the sun. Most places I go are shaded for the most part anyway so even a roof full of solar isn't going to fill the gap. I'm not going to schlep around a stack of portable panels and mess with that either. If I park in the sun around here that RV becomes an oven so I'm running the genset and AC to make it tolerable, making the idea of whatever the panels are putting out a moot point. I live in one of the best places in the country for solar and for me it's a solution seeking a suitable problem. Run the genset as needed and the RV is serving my needs vs me serving the RV. Those that have a hands-off solar system have invested a significant amount of time, effort and money to bring it to that point, which for a weekender like me is far beyond my budget and attention span. No question that solar can work for some people in some places but like the idea of lithium batteries, it's not a universal solution.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
Hi Mark,
We just finished our first trip with our newly installed soft folding solar panel (weighs about 7lbs). Installation of the sidewall SAE port and mppt controller was easy. Total cost including Victron controller under $300. The panel was able to produce about 30 amp hours on a sunny day, which is about 2/3 of our normal daily consumption. Nothing could be easier. Just set the panel outside and plug it into the port. Way easier than starting and plugging in a generator. Oh, and if shade is available, we can park in the shade because we have a 30ft cable for the panel.

The greatest value to us with LiFePo4 is weight saving because we are near payload cap, and fast recharge. We can go from 30% SOC to 100% in 2 hours using a 2500w propane generator. That’s about 25% of the genny time needed for FLA. Besides the quieter campsite, The fuel savings vrs charging a FLA battery bank of the same capacity will pay for our LiFePo4 in a couple of years.

LiFePo4 and solar not for everybody, but it has made our RV experience simpler not harder, and less expensive (on a daily basis) not more expensive.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:30 AM   #26
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Two comments:

1. Running your FLA batteries below 50% state of charge on an occasional basis isn't going to have a material effect on their lifespan, only if you routinely do so.

2. I would put solar ahead of LiFePO4 batteries in terms of priorities. Solar will extend your boondocking or dry camping capability regardless of your battery type, so spend your money first on solar and then, should you decide to do so, on LiFePO4 batteries.
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:39 AM   #27
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The kicker is I have a portable panel. I used to use it more when I tent camped and it was easier to lay out a panel where the tent was than run a cord down to the pickup to have power for lights and such. Today, the idea of hauling out one more thing to set up, then have to babysit so it doesn't get stolen, then have one more thing to pack up for the few Ah a day I stand to gain just isn't worth my time. That's not to say solar's not useful, I've been playing with solar power and battery storage for a few decades now. It's based on that experience I specifically avoid messing with it vs embrace it for this specific application. If folks want to put thousands of dollars into that aspect of RV'ing, more power to you (...) and I find those practical solutions interesting to read and understand. But I think a lot of folks wander into the solar power game with unrealistic expectations and get sold a bill of goods that does not enhance the 'RV experience'. One figures that out pretty quickly and you move on, I'm just offering the perspective that solar power isn't all rainbows and lollipops as some proponents imply.

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Old 07-22-2021, 08:57 AM   #28
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Running your FLA batteries below 50% state of charge on an occasional basis isn't going to have a material effect on their lifespan, only if you routinely do so.
'Routinely' it doesn't either. In the case of T105's the difference in service life between 40% to 80% DOD is a few percent. Not material by any practical definition.

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