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Old 01-23-2015, 11:12 AM   #15
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Bad and Dangerous Installations

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post
so what are the common problems you see in "other" installations.
Oh me...where do I start...where do I end. I'll start with the dangerous fire hazard problems that I see nearly every day.

  1. No circuit protection for DC branch circuits from batteries.
  2. No circuit protection for AC distribution.
  3. DC Circuit protection installed at the load instead of the battery.
  4. Multiple batteries connected together in different compartments without any circuit protection between them.
  5. Batteries set in compartments without any restraints.
  6. Wrong type or rating of circuit protection.
  7. Unrated wire used for DC and AC distribution.
  8. Undersized wire used for DC distribution..
  9. AC disconnects used for DC loads.
  10. Poorly connected AC wiring using wire nuts.
  11. No AC circuit protection from inverter output.
  12. Too small AC conductor size to and from inverter.
  13. Inverter AC back-feeding AC main panel.
  14. AC and DC wire with no circuit protection or physical protection running through steel penetrations.
  15. DC wire with no circuit protection or physical protection running under RV exposed to road debris.
  16. AC and DC wire draped over rear axle where it can flop into the tire.
  17. Household Romex type AC wire run through steel penetrations and under RV with no protection.
  18. Batteries located in different compartments with no interconnect protection.
  19. Batteries located in non vented areas with other electrical equipment.
  20. Using a single small screw to fasten PV solar modules to roof.
  21. Use of double stick tape to fasten PV solar to roof.
  22. PV solar wire running through doors windows.
  23. Draping PV solar wires down outside of RV.
  24. Making DC connections with a self tap screw through carpet on steel wall.
It astounds me sometimes when I examine an RV and point out dangerous installations only to hear something like, "it hasn't burned up yet" or "it's been that way for years" ...

I could post some pictures if anyone is interested.

Larry
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Old 01-23-2015, 12:17 PM   #16
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Seems all the good Solar installers are out west. Wish there were specialists on the east coast. I plan on adding solar at some point... maybe when we plan a trip to the west coast we'll get up with one of these guys!
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:12 PM   #17
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Looks like a list of common wiring problems to me and none related to solar efficiencies.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:39 PM   #18
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Larry points to many issues which never should have been exhibited if the installers knew code factors or had any "professional" experience. Iv'e been in the fire alarm business for over 30 years and primarily work with DC circuits daily. Also work on a variety of systems in boats for many years to include security, radar, radio, intercoms etc. I can't even find paper long enough to list all the things I have seen done WROMG on installations by other people.

Larry's list is similar to mine in many ways. The electrician that does the HV work on my installs will not let OP work behind his work if it is wrong. If it is wrong it is dangerous and if he is the last person in a panel it will be perfect when he closes the door and signs on the bottom line. MY work is the same. I will not sign off on OP work when it is wrong. When I am the last person on the job, every thing is perfect.

Kudo's to Larry and all professional "licensed" installers
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Old 01-24-2015, 04:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caissiel View Post
Looks like a list of common wiring problems to me and none related to solar efficiencies.
Hi,

The question I was answering was about poor and dangerous installations.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about PV system performance or practicality. Please explain what you mean by solar efficiencies.

Thanks, Larry
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Old 01-24-2015, 05:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladagobago View Post
Larry points to many issues which never should have been exhibited if the installers knew code factors or had any "professional" experience. Iv'e been in the fire alarm business for over 30 years and primarily work with DC circuits daily. Also work on a variety of systems in boats for many years to include security, radar, radio, intercoms etc. I can't even find paper long enough to list all the things I have seen done WROMG on installations by other people.

Larry's list is similar to mine in many ways. The electrician that does the HV work on my installs will not let OP work behind his work if it is wrong. If it is wrong it is dangerous and if he is the last person in a panel it will be perfect when he closes the door and signs on the bottom line. MY work is the same. I will not sign off on OP work when it is wrong. When I am the last person on the job, every thing is perfect.

Kudo's to Larry and all professional "licensed" installers
Most of Larry's list is common sense, some requires RVIA/NEC code and electrical knowledge. I am not a professional installer but I have the same philosophy as both Larry and ladagobago, I've corrected several improper installations on the RV's I've owned, even a couple on our Newmar which we bought new. In one case, we smelled something burning when running the water heater on electric. Traced the wires and found an improperly installed crimp connector whose insulation was black and melted from overheating. Crimp connectors are preferred by RVIA because they are less likely to vibrate apart than wire nuts, but this example shows they have to be properly installed to be safe. More recently, I had a jack fail that Newmar installed less than a year ago because the wiring was not properly supported, a heavy gauge power wire was being supported by a small gauge sensor wire. Needless to say, Newmar covered the cost of the new jack and I properly supported the wires when I re-installed it.
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:53 PM   #21
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I bought my system as a kit and the wiring that came with it was no welder cable quality. The wire cover is double insulated with the outside cover very hard and thick. Makes for a very same line that runs from the panel to the batteries.

Yes we all need to be aware of all codes. Be it plumbing, electrical, motor vehicle etc. Our house on wheels is loaded with potential problems, and I can bet that most RV techs are neither plumbers nor mechanic, refrigeration technicians, carpenters, electricians etc. But they are exposed to all of the requirements. It's a tough job but they are to be applaud for doing a great job.
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:36 PM   #22
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Good RV solar installers/do-it yourself systems

AM Solar did our install and we've been very happy with them. They're located in Eugene, OR but we actually had one of their certified installers do the job for us in Florida in 2011. They sell kits and will support you for self-installation too.

We were also able to visit Starlight Solar Power Systems this week in Yuma, AZ and I was impressed with the quality of their installations. Would recommend them too.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:03 PM   #23
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i am guessing larry (batterypro) is from starlightsolar. by reading his posts, i am impressed with his in-depth knowledge in solar and li batts. considering wheelingit has visited their site and saw their quality work, i would say go with them, you/they are in good hands.
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