Inexpensive Chinese Lithium battery worth trying or stick with Battleborn?

[jrollf]

The fine stranded welding wire is a lot more flexible.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by jrollf

The fine stranded welding wire is a lot more flexible.

Thank you. I found this chart and it seems when you switch to aught (zeros), the pattern is reversed and larger numbers represent thicker wire, not thinner, like it does in AWG or gauges.

Learn something new everyday...

https://bulkwire.com/help/wire-gauge...eference-table

[Fffrank]

Keep in mind that prices for LiPo4 batteries are still in early-adopter stages. This technology is ramping up quickly and prices will drop significantly -- especially as the big, legacy battery companies start to roll out that technology!

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Fffrank

Keep in mind that prices for LiPo4 batteries are still in early-adopter stages. This technology is ramping up quickly and prices will drop significantly -- especially as the big, legacy battery companies start to roll out that technology!

Yeah, already got bit on that one. Mine dropped $100ea. soon after I bought them

[The_Breeze]

Something doesn't seem right? I found this on ebay per 757driver's advice.

Since 4/0 is recommendation, I'd like to do that. What I don't understand is 103mm works out to a little over 4". I'm sorry, but just seems impossible. I don't care if both wires are black when this comes in $20-40 cheaper on a 8ft run. Some red heat shrink over the lugs will differentiate just fine for my purpose.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/29178554205...IAAOSw8gVX4uj4

[SLOweather]

Perhaps you dropped a decimal point 10.3 mm = 0.4055118 inches.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by SLOweather

Perhaps you dropped a decimal point 10.3 mm = 0.4055118 inches.

The decimal may not be showing up in the pic and that would make sense.
4/0 is supposedly .46? I'll write the seller and get the skinny.

[Tomahawk]

the 103 is supposed to say 103 mm^2 which is the cross sectional area of wire. Works out to 11.45 mm (.451 inch) Diameter.

[The_Breeze]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk

the 103 is supposed to say 103 mm^2 which is the cross sectional area of wire. Works out to 11.45 mm (.451 inch) Diameter.

Yes, thanks. I went back and looked at their other gauges for sale and all had the ^2 except the pic for the 4/0. I'll be the proud owner of 16ft soon and totally wasted pair of 4AWG jumper cables

[JDooley]

Flexibility is one but one needs to understand that electrons do not run in the wire. Electrons run on the surface of the wire. So with fine strands of wire there is more surface area for the electrons to flow on. This helps to minimize restriction to flow and less heat buildup , less voltage drop due to resistance ect... (example) running 6awg solid which is one wire vs. House flex [ not really flexible] with 12 wires vs. Welding cable with 204 fine wires you can see the difference. (All 6awg) Also with high amperage draws welding cable handles it well.
JMHO...hope I explained it well enough.
Use the largest wire you can afford for the distance and current flow.

[The_Breeze]

You explained it well. Even I understood (lol).

I have to make 2-8ft runs (pos & neg). I can't find 4/0 welding cable for under $5.5/.ft. I'd love to get away with less but the wire calculator shows less drop using 4/0 and I'm just getting into all this. $80+ in cable just sits a little awkward, given my inexperience.

I'm going this route to stay off grid - not only for the adventure but also possible cost savings. So far, I've burned $24 in 4AWG jumper cables and $86 of 12-3 wire - all because of my ignorance.


In order to complete this phase of the project, I need close to $200 in new cable so the project is up to $4900 and isn't even installed yet

I'm learning (the hard way) the price of entry is NOT cheap.

[Rewarder1]

If you want throw away batteries,buy Chinese. Then buy something that is an investment

[Jacjetlag]

Pretty sure the cells aren't manufactured anywhere other than the far east. The cells are then assembled and branded here.

+++++

I would love to be proven wrong.

[LA-Hodag2]

Reposting below a summary of our experience with the Chins brand batteries from a different forum. OP's questions have been resolved, but others seeing this thread may find it helpful. We have only 3 months of experience with the Chins, but so far, so good, and we are super happy with the results. Running the a/c all night off the batteries has been awesome.

As for warranty, sure it is a concern, but unless you are dealing with a Fortune 500 company, expecting warranty support 5 or more years from purchase is probably wishful thinking for any product. Ask yourself: If any of the American battery suppliers started seeing mass failure of their products at 6 or 8 years from date of sale, would they be financially able to honor all the warranty claims? In all our prior rigs the name brand AGM batteries needed replacement within 3-5 years just from aging out, so if we get that long from the lithiums we will be happy even though they cost more, because in the meantime we get so much more capacity. Anything beyond five years will just be gravy.

We used the existing 4/0 welding cables as connections from the batteries to the inverter, b-to-b chargers and distribution center.

Here is excerpt from my post on the Class B forum:

Reporting back on the lithium battery conversion and 12v air conditioner install in our class B Sprinter conversion van.

Our van came with two size 8-D Lifeline AGM batteries installed in custom boxes under the van where the spare tire would be stowed (unheated exterior space). We had a typical 13,500 Dometic roof air, the Xantrex 2000 watt inverter, and an Onan 2.5kw propane generator. The air conditioner could only be run on 30amp shore or generator power. We also have 200 watts of solar and a large Nova Cool compressor fridge.

We replaced the batteries with 2 Chins brand 300AH lithium batteries with integral heaters, for a total of 600AH capacity. The batteries are almost exactly the same dimensions as the Lifeline 8-Ds they replaced, so they fit perfectly in the existing boxes. Of course they are much lighter. We were able to use much of the wiring from the original batteries as well. We did not change the inverter, which is theoretically capable of charging at 80 amps, but seems in actual usage to top out at about 65 amps.

We could have kept the Dometic rooftop air conditioner and run it by replacing the inverter with a 3000 watt unit and adding a soft start, but the cost of doing that was about 2/3 the cost of replacing the a/c unit. We decided to go with 12v a/c since running off an inverter would have resulted in significant loss of useful battery life due to inverter inefficiency, and the larger inverter would not fit where the existing inverter is (like all B vans we are really space limited). So we replaced the air conditioner with a rooftop unit called Electra-Kool by ProAir. The 12v unit puts out 20,000 BTU, which is over 30% more cooling than the original unit. The ProAir fit the existing cut-out in the van’s roof, but the unit’s exterior dimensions are different than the Dometic and we had to relocate a solar panel so it would fit.

To charge from the engine, we installed two Victron Orion 30amp battery-to- battery chargers, so the engine alternator can recharge at up to 60 amps. To monitor the system we added Victron BMV-712 smart battery monitor. The chargers and the monitor are all Bluetooth enabled, which makes them easy to use and really helps monitor power usage and state of charge. Other than a lot of cables and a number of circuit breakers, the only other significant component was a Victron Lynx distributor, which is basically a box that combines positive and negative buss bars with space for mega fuses (e.g. 150amp for the air conditioner) for each circuit.

The only real installation glitch resulted from following ProAir’s instructions to use 4AWG wire from the distribution panel to the roof unit. The unit would shut down due to low voltage at high loads. We re-ran the connection with 2AWG wire and it works fine now.

Here are details of the major components we used:

2x Chins 300AH smart lithium phosphate batteries. $1,400 each on Amazon, shipping included. (Arrived in perfect condition about ten days after order.)

ProAir Electra-Kool roof air conditioning unit. $2550 plus shipping. (For some reason, this unit does not appear on the ProAir website, but just call them. They have white and black, 12v or 24v. This is the OEM unit in many Coachmen and MidWest Automotive brand vans with a lithium battery package.)

2x Victron Energy Orion TR Smart 12/12-volt DC to DC charger, isolated. $273 each, on Amazon.

Victron Lynx 1000 distributor. About $300 from a Victron dealer online.

Victron BMV-712 battery monitor. About $200.

I hope somebody finds this useful.

Bryan