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Old 10-21-2021, 06:58 AM   #1
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Lithium Newbie

I am new to lithium and totally confused by the specs vs. flooded or AGM batteries. I recently got a new RV with 6- 100amp Dragonfly batteries.
How does this compare to my old coach that had 8- Trojan AGM 6V batteries?
At best the golf carts batteries would run frig, heat and electrical for a day.
What can I expect from lithium?

Thank You
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Old 10-21-2021, 11:44 AM   #2
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Lithium batteries will generally provide more useable power than comparable lead-acid batteries.

The lithium battery manufacturers appear to list their battery capacity by the useable power, so 6 - 100 Ah lithium batteries will provide 600 amp-hours of power before the Battery Management Systems shut them down.

You can discharge lead-acid batteries until they are completely flat and have suffered irreversible damage. I do not know what the useable power from your AGM batteries was, or what is required to run “fridge, heat and electrical” in your rig.
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Old 10-22-2021, 05:49 PM   #3
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The 8 Trojan AGM 6V would be near 800Ahr..
By the books of batterys the myth, the legends and fact....

The Dragons at 600AHr will safely give you 540AHr of use.. recharge faster than AGM and outlast the AGM or FLA many years longer under hard use,

the Trojans at 800Hr will give you 400-480Ahr safely..
Personally I have taken my 300Ahr FLA bank to 20--30% 11.9-12V.. NOT daily or many times.. they are going on 4 years old and work for my 32-50 days a year I use RV..

You will be happy with the dragons.....
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Old 10-26-2021, 10:21 PM   #4
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A few very nice things on lithium.

You do not need to fully charge them to 100% all the time.

They take a charge very fast, so if batteries are low - run generator for one hour - charged up plenty for the night.

Caution- you never want to run them all the way down. The bms should save them if you do (hopefully), but they are expensive to replace.

Solar works great with lithium’s!
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Old 10-30-2021, 07:00 AM   #5
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you can safely use all 600 amp hour out of your dragonfly's with out any real damage to the battery. You will not get any notice that the battery BMS is about to turn off the battery output so you may want to figure out if you have a charger to put out the voltage needed to turn back on the BMS (14.6Vdc at the battery) and will you have a generator battery with enough power to start ? You can get 3000+ charge cycle (100% to 20% SOC) with lithium . SOC= state of charge. If you don't have lithium battery's at 32*F or warmer they should NOT be charged , your Firefly battery have a BMS with temp sensor that will accept a charge down to I think its 25*f. Below that you can only discharge the battery not charge it. If you don't have a victron smart shunt or some other very accurate way of knowing what your SOC is you really should install one. They are not much money for the information they are providing. The smart shunt with out the head end gauge is about $130 and with the head end is about $230 and its a fairly simple install.

with regards to the old 6 volt system you had if you went below 50% charge state on that battery bank you where shortening the life of those battery (12.0 volts at rest). So really you only had 400 amp hours assuming your not dipping into the reserve power that shortens the life expectancy of lead acid. you can get roughly 600 discharges and recharges (100% down to 50% SOC) out of lead acid.

some great info to learn if you have time and interest.





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Old 11-01-2021, 06:39 PM   #6
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Thank You for the links. That happens to be the monitor in my unit but it is mounted in the battery compartment. Seems like it should be next to the magnum control where it could be seen.
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Old 11-01-2021, 09:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Thank You for the links. That happens to be the monitor in my unit but it is mounted in the battery compartment. Seems like it should be next to the magnum control where it could be seen.
The BMV-712 has Bluetooth. Many people leave the display tucked away out of sight and use the Victron app instead. The Victron app shows more information than the display does, or at least shows it in a more useable format.
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Thank You for the links. That happens to be the monitor in my unit but it is mounted in the battery compartment. Seems like it should be next to the magnum control where it could be seen.
If you could post a picture of the shunt that is in the negative battery cable I could tell you for sure if it's the smart version that is blue tooth compatible. I would say even if it is Bluetooth it's not going to help you. My smart shunt barely transmitted 6' and inside and maybe 25' outside the coach. There is a victron direct connect port on the meter that you could install a cervo and touch screen or a color GX. If you have any thought on roof solar or a big inverter you could say the color GX or Cerbo GX makes sense. If solar is not in your future the two cables could be swapped out for longer ones and relocating the BMs to some place inside the coach is possible.( maybe not easy )
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Old 11-02-2021, 02:39 PM   #9
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It is the blue tooth version as I setup the app with it. I did not try it inside the coach. The coach has 4- 175 watt solar panels.
After reviewing the instruction book several times and viewing the video, I am not really sure what I would do with the info it provides.
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Old 11-02-2021, 05:29 PM   #10
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What I do with mine - number one is state of charge of my batteries. Number 2 is the rate of consumption of power. Early on I used it to determine how much power different items use. Number 3 is to verify that everything is shut down when I leave the rig, by seeing that power consumption is zero.

I have the temperature monitor, but have never seen temperature get out of hand.
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Old 11-03-2021, 06:00 AM   #11
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What I do with mine - number one is state of charge of my batteries. Number 2 is the rate of consumption of power. Early on I used it to determine how much power different items use. Number 3 is to verify that everything is shut down when I leave the rig, by seeing that power consumption is zero.

I have the temperature monitor, but have never seen temperature get out of hand.
Do you have lithium batteries? I have not gotten a chance to learn all the apps and new systems in this unit. It is too cold here. Heading south soon and I will have time to learn then. The steering wheel is about the only thing the same as my prior units.
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Old 11-03-2021, 07:20 AM   #12
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the Trojans at 800Hr will give you 400-480Ahr safely..
What makes using the other ~400Ah "unsafe" ?

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
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Old 11-03-2021, 09:05 AM   #13
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Do you have lithium batteries? I have not gotten a chance to learn all the apps and new systems in this unit. It is too cold here. Heading south soon and I will have time to learn then. The steering wheel is about the only thing the same as my prior units.
Yes, I do have lithium - 3 of the 100-Ah Battleborn batteries - and I love them. I am in my third trailer in a little over a year. I started with one Battleborn in a 2011 Arctic Fox in late summer of 2020, and each time I bought a new one I brought the previous batteries with me and added one.

I am tempted to rave about the lithium batteries, but there are other threads about the pros and cons 😉

For me and the way I camp, 300 Ah of lithium is a lot of power. In the summer it will probably be good for a week or more. In the winter it is probably enough for three days. How 600 Ah works for you depends on your equipment and the way you use it.
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Old 11-04-2021, 07:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
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What makes using the other ~400Ah "unsafe" ?

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
unsafe...... not really the correct way to word it. Its not good for lead acid battery of any type to be discharged below 50% SOC. If you take it lower your are shortening the life of the battery for sure. If you take it down to near zero even once you may have taken 20% of the charge cycles and lost some of the battery amp hour compacity. Typical lead acid battery are good for about 500~600 charge cycles at 50% depth of discharge.
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