Lithium upgrade- change my pd4045 controller or go victron?

[Cvin]

Have a pd4045 older model that will not charge lithium, deciding on either just swapping that out to the upgraded progressive dynamics controller or should I go with a victron or some other brand? And maybe do an inverter/charger???

The PD upgrade swap to the csv model seems easy

But if I am messing with it not sure if I should do something different if the costs is not much more

[SafariBen]

First, it will charge lithiums. If it gets over 14v it will charge them just as well as it charges lead. It will NOT balance them without some tricks, but that's not a big deal if you can get a smaller charger that will balance them when not in use every 3-8 months.



Second, what do you want out of the lithium battery? Are you using this full time, all the comforts of home? or a few trips a year, trying to minimize the generator run time, etc?

[Cvin]

Ok to be clear even if I do not upgrade to the newer 4045 csv controller part it will charge a lithium battery?
And will the PD 4045 csv upgraded controller balance the lithium battery?

Basically my interstate lead acid deep cycle is bad and do not want another regular battery

Will be adding solar in a few months, but right now just need to get a decent lithium battery and make sure it charges correctly

Planning to put 100ah or 200ah battery on it, with something that will charge/balance it correctly

The trailer is used a lot but I also have big power stations to run extra stuff

This just needs to keep frig going on propane, lights, furnace etc

[SafariBen]

It will charge. I don't know if the old one will charge with different stages, or simply the float voltage. Typically when one plugs in, it's overnight so charge rate is not a huge deal, but if planning to use a generator, it is a big deal.



You won't hurt the Li by "not charging it correctly" for a few months until you get solar that will balance it. You could hurt it by running it down to near zero and then leaving it long enough to reach actual zero, but you'd have plenty of warning of that.

[Isaac-1]

You will likely be fine with a PD4045 and up to about 200AH of LiFePo4 batteries, looking at an older PDF manual for this model from 2011 it looks like it has the same basic charge profile as my PD9260, it runs at 14.4VDC for 4 hours, then switches into 13.6V float mode, if it detects no activity it drops to 13.2V storage mode after 32 hours. In that initial 4 hours you should get close to 4X 45 amps (180AH ) worth of charge before it drops to 13.6VDC So unless your batteries are all the way down it should top them off, though may not maintain it long enough to fully top balance.


Note if it goes into storage mode you may need to disconnect and reconnect power to the converter to top off the batteries again.

[Cvin]

That is great news, hoping to put a 100ah lithium in here tomorrow and then new pd4045csv wont be here until next week

Know i have a Schumacher auto charger that does lithium but have no idea how good it is

I do have a 100watt solar panel with a charge controller on it and can hook that up to it

I just want to make sure it is getting fully charged/balanced so the battery last

Should I buy a good lithium charger for balancing a few times a year or will the new 4045csv handle that fine?
If i need a charger, please recommend some good ones

[Isaac-1]

The first thing you need to know is to unlearn all those lead acid battery things, you thought applied to all batteries, first of all LiFePo4 actually lasts longer if kept at a partial state of charge, taking all factors into consideration, they will last the longest if stored at 50-70% SOC, unlike Lead Acid which needs to be kept fully topped off. Second top balancing is just that balancing, depending on the quality of the cells used and how closely matched they are, this may need to be done every 6 to 12 charge cycles, maybe every 20 charge cycles for well matched cells, in other words with typical RV use you could go months before needing to top balance which your new Progressive Dynamics CSV should handle fine.


In fact given that you have a 100 watt solar panel, that alone with a Lithium profile Charge controller would likely handle all of your top balancing needs along with your current Progressive dynamics converter.


Perhaps a better use of your money would be to keep the existing convert, and instead spend the money on more solar panels, assuming you don't store the RV indoors.

[SafariBen]

Agree, more solar is cheap if you can get uses/surplus panels locally. And balancing is not like topping up lead, lead wants to be stored at 100% and cycled 50% (for industrial daily use where it will cycle out instead of age out). Li wants to cycle 30-80% and is better stored anywhere in that range than at 100%.



The figures I've found for balancing Li is "every few months"-Will Prowse, to every "6-8 months" and I don't remember if I got the source of that. Do you have a source for the 6-12-20 cycles schedule for balancing?

[Isaac-1]

I do not, but it is a commonly sighted number on the DIY solar groups, though again this BIG issue is things like the quality of the cells, how well matched they are, having access to the raw cell voltages from the BMS either through data port or bluetooth is very helpful here for knowing when you need to top balance vs guessing.

[Cvin]

All great info and easily done, will treat them just like my ebike batteries

And if going with not a full charge I want 200ah in batteries

for right now I will not upgrade the converter in the rv and will invest in a good standalone lithium charger, want the ability to do a full 100% balancing charge before we head out each time

Also need to wire in a good battery monitor so i can see how the system is doing

This trailer is definitely getting solar panels my biggest obstacle on that is it is a playmor toy hauler and the roof is like a loose piece of not flat metal that is only connected at the sides, trying to figure out how is the best way to mount these to not hurt the roof
originally wanted to use a cargo trailer rack and bolt in from the sides but one carson trailer guy told me not to
He says you have to glue and screw down big pieces of plywood as a base and then try to glue and screw down the solar mounts into that wood and into the roof beams....

Anyone who has put panels on a roof like this and has suggestions would be great

[Stircrazy1]

Originally Posted by Cvin

All great info and easily done, will treat them just like my ebike batteries

And if going with not a full charge I want 200ah in batteries

for right now I will not upgrade the converter in the rv and will invest in a good standalone lithium charger, want the ability to do a full 100% balancing charge before we head out each time

Also need to wire in a good battery monitor so i can see how the system is doing

This trailer is definitely getting solar panels my biggest obstacle on that is it is a playmor toy hauler and the roof is like a loose piece of not flat metal that is only connected at the sides, trying to figure out how is the best way to mount these to not hurt the roof
originally wanted to use a cargo trailer rack and bolt in from the sides but one carson trailer guy told me not to
He says you have to glue and screw down big pieces of plywood as a base and then try to glue and screw down the solar mounts into that wood and into the roof beams....

Anyone who has put panels on a roof like this and has suggestions would be great

how hard did you look at your 4045 converter? I thought mine was a non Li one also, but apparently there are three different types of li compatable (as in the way to switch them to Li mode is different, one uses a switch one uses a jumper then one, mine, uses a very tiny switch that isn't in the same place the others are. I am just glad I found that befor I ordered a new one.

I agree with most that has been said, get more solar and let your battery balance more than a couple times a year. I balance mine every day while I am camping, the problem is with the onboard pasive balancing a lot of the premade batteries are using it could takje months to get a proper balance if your just replying on solar or you cycle it alot.

the other issue is when people talk about life, as in longer life from not having it at 100%. that is intended for storage, you drain it down. if you charge it to 100% every day you will get your rated cycles if not more because your short cycleing (not draining down to 0%) and also because your not charging at 0.5C. so lower charging amprage create less heat and less stress on the batteries. also we have to be realistic. if my battery is rated for 4000 cycles and lets jsut say I do lose 25% of the cycle life because I do somthing that decreases cycle life like charging higher than 0.5C of storing it at 100% and I cycle it twice a week camping then I am still good to camp for 28 years..

thats the problem with reading on the big solar/battery back up sites they are using the batteries totaly different, some cycle every day some are held at high voltage only as a back up for power outtages so it is heather very heavy use or long term storage where ya cycling every day at the senario we talked about it would reduce that to 10 years of life. but remember even after you hit the cycle life you will still have 80% of the original capacity so its not like Lead acid where you hit the cycle life and it is garbage.

so how you intend to use it matters alot also. I am switching out to a inverter/charger in my camper only because the charge is totaly programable and I can change the storage voltage to hold it at 50% in the off season, right now I just use the solar controler to do that and realy it isn't that big of a deal I just have the breaker for the converter turned off and I don't use 120V in the camoer anyways. so the biggest thing is how do you want to use your camper. once you know that, you can customize the system from there. Also if I had a railing on my camer thats what the solar would be atached to, not the roof. Just put a could cross beams that the brackets can attach to and you lift them a little higher so you shade thata rea of the cealing but not heat transfer from the panels and no more holes int he celing.

[Cvin]

This is all great info, thank you to everyone

I ordered a victron charger to have for balancing every month or 2, in theory here in southern az should have enough solar to keep all the power stations and rv batteries at 100% all the time, will see if real world that is the case

But if they are will probably turn off solar for a day and try to let everything run down a little and then do a balancing every couple of months

Pulling this toy hauler with a small bus that has about 1300 -1400 watts in solar and that is setup to go directly into the power stations that have their own controllers

But will do the toy hauler different, will have 1300-1400 of solar on it too and need to figure out the controller for it, would love to get a multi plus or some other victron but they are big money, will see what setup i end up with but for right now the actual rv battery will be on a solar panel or plugged in so should be ok

I may be lazy for a bit and just run everything off the bus for a while, but am very happy I dont need to spend the 200 for the upgraded converter, that adds to battery money

My trailer is a 2014 and according to a few google searches progressive dynamics did not make the lithium boards until 2021, on my board I dont see a jumper , switch or any other place to turn lithium on

Do you have a picture of the third option? Do all the options have LI next to them?

[Cvin]

Hmm, I picked up a used 100ah lithium that has Bluetooth, hooked it up to the rv

This is the screen I show off the Bluetooth, does this look correct? Seems low to me on current amps....
7 hours to charge?

Wondering if I have too small of wires from the converter to battery

Tried to add a pic using attachments, this does not look very clear
Should add this is running off my westinghouse igen2500 generator-maybe that is the issue?


Totalvolt 13.34
Current 6.42
Power 85.64 W

[Cvin]

Hmm here is the cheap 12 volt monitor i have plugged into the cigarette type plug in the wall above the converter
It shows higher voltage
Dont know why that turned the pic but it is 14.38