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Old 10-24-2021, 05:17 AM   #1
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New Progressive Dynamics 9160Li is dumb as a box of rocks

On my first trip with my new DC setup. I had replaced my WFCO 8955 non lithium capable converter charger (CC) with the highly recommended Progressive Dynamics 9160Li. I let the 2x206 Ah SOK batteries discharge to 50% to see what the PD CC would do. So it hits them hard with 60amps to start. Awesome, I think. And it keeps pushing 14.4V until the BMS cries uncle. And then the PD CC keeps pushing 14.4V. For days. I finally turned the breaker to the CC off. I need to call PD and see what's up because this CC is supposed to drop to 13.6V for float. It didn't. And to be honest, I don't like how dumb this charger is anyway. Would really like something that I can configure to match my SOK batteries or any other battery in the future.

So, now that I've dropped the coin for the PD which I don't like, what should I buy? Maybe I should have just gotten a MultiPlus.
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Old 10-24-2021, 11:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corn18 View Post
On my first trip with my new DC setup. I had replaced my WFCO 8955 non lithium capable converter charger (CC) with the highly recommended Progressive Dynamics 9160Li. I let the 2x206 Ah SOK batteries discharge to 50% to see what the PD CC would do. So it hits them hard with 60amps to start. Awesome, I think. And it keeps pushing 14.4V until the BMS cries uncle. And then the PD CC keeps pushing 14.4V. For days. I finally turned the breaker to the CC off. I need to call PD and see what's up because this CC is supposed to drop to 13.6V for float. It didn't. And to be honest, I don't like how dumb this charger is anyway. Would really like something that I can configure to match my SOK batteries or any other battery in the future.

So, now that I've dropped the coin for the PD which I don't like, what should I buy? Maybe I should have just gotten a MultiPlus.
Sorry to hear of your charging problems. Get a charger where you can control the charger parameters such as charge voltage, duration, and rebulk voltage. From what I have seen most chargers that come with a lithium setting are totally out to lunch. Charging lithium to 14.4v and then floating at 13.6v will keep a lithium bank at full charge which is not good.
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Old 10-24-2021, 12:16 PM   #3
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"The system was designed to sense voltage on the battery and will taper the charging current as the battery becomes charged. "
9100 'L' Series doesn't do Bulk/Float/Storage charges....it varies voltage based on battery voltage
It is NOT sensing battery voltage like it should OR you have a bad battery
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Old 10-24-2021, 01:34 PM   #4
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The 9160 is working as designed. It is NOT designed for bare Li batteries without an internal BMS. It is designed for Li batteries WITH an internal BMS.

It puts the voltage across Li batteries that is needed so that the battery's internal BMS can charge and balance them to 100% charge. The cut-back to the recommended optimal float voltage of 13.5 happens internally within the battery, once the batteries internal BMS decides that each of the series wired Li battery cells has reached 100% charge.

You sould be able to test this by flipping off the breaker powering the 9160 and observing what the 12 volt system voltage drops to without the converter outputting.
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Old 10-24-2021, 04:43 PM   #5
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The 9160 is working as designed. It is NOT designed for bare Li batteries without an internal BMS. It is designed for Li batteries WITH an internal BMS.

It puts the voltage across Li batteries that is needed so that the battery's internal BMS can charge and balance them to 100% charge. The cut-back to the recommended optimal float voltage of 13.5 happens internally within the battery, once the batteries internal BMS decides that each of the series wired Li battery cells has reached 100% charge.

You sould be able to test this by flipping off the breaker powering the 9160 and observing what the 12 volt system voltage drops to without the converter outputting.
What lithium battery are you referring to that controls the charging and cuts back the voltage to 13.5v when fully charged?
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Old 10-24-2021, 06:15 PM   #6
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From Dakota Lithium Battery Website... Every quality Lithium battery has a BMS.

A BMS (Battery Management system) is an integrated electronics board that monitors the battery and its cells, providing overcharge protection, overcurrent protection, regulating operating and charging temperature, and other protective functions to ensure a long and productive life from every Dakota Lithium battery. In short, a BMS is a backup safety system that makes sure your lithium battery is 100% safe and reliable. It is an integral part of any 12 volt Lithium battery sold for vehicle applications.
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Old 10-24-2021, 06:26 PM   #7
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From Dakota Lithium Battery Website... Every quality Lithium battery has a BMS.

A BMS (Battery Management system) is an integrated electronics board that monitors the battery and its cells, providing overcharge protection, overcurrent protection, regulating operating and charging temperature, and other protective functions to ensure a long and productive life from every Dakota Lithium battery. In short, a BMS is a backup safety system that makes sure your lithium battery is 100% safe and reliable. It is an integral part of any 12 volt Lithium battery sold for vehicle applications.
You are confusing what a lithium BMS is designed to perform. A BMS is there to protect the lithium battery from various parameters such as what you listed BUT it is not there to control the charging of a lithium battery. Charging of a lithium battery is controlled by the charger. If it fails to accomplish that safely then the safeguards of the BMS take over and stop the charging.
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Old 10-24-2021, 06:27 PM   #8
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I will play around with it some more. This is the first time I have used the new PD CC, and it irritated me when it stayed at 14.6V. To be clear, my BMS did not shut down the batteries, it just dropped the charge current to zero, which is good. When I turned off the charger, the voltage was 13.4V, right where it should be.

I'll probably just use the PD CC as a bulk charger and then turn it off and let the solar take over. My SCC's are set up nicely for my SOK BMS and they play very nicely together.
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Old 10-30-2021, 06:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
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On my first trip with my new DC setup. I had replaced my WFCO 8955 non lithium capable converter charger (CC) with the highly recommended Progressive Dynamics 9160Li. I let the 2x206 Ah SOK batteries discharge to 50% to see what the PD CC would do. So it hits them hard with 60amps to start. Awesome, I think. And it keeps pushing 14.4V until the BMS cries uncle. And then the PD CC keeps pushing 14.4V. For days. I finally turned the breaker to the CC off. I need to call PD and see what's up because this CC is supposed to drop to 13.6V for float. It didn't. And to be honest, I don't like how dumb this charger is anyway. Would really like something that I can configure to match my SOK batteries or any other battery in the future.

So, now that I've dropped the coin for the PD which I don't like, what should I buy? Maybe I should have just gotten a MultiPlus.

watch this, it explains charging Lithium battery's with great details. In my opinion Victron IP-22 chargers are the way to go if you need just a charger. If you need more then 30 amps output your best option is two chargers or look at an inverter upgrade. For me I will be removing my Magnum 1200watt and replacing it with a Victron Multiplus II , its capable of providing power at the same time as utility power. Basically if I only have 120/30amp park power I can still use the 2nd AC (for a while depending on battery bank size). You set the victron to how many amps are available and the inverter will make up the balance of the load up to its rated output. so 30 amps=3600 watt total plus the your inverter rated power (2000~3000 watts)= 6600 total available when its programed to hybrid mode.

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Old 11-05-2021, 08:17 PM   #10
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I had the same problem with the charger in my PD4500 power control center. The newer models do have a little switch to change from Lead Acid to Lithium but as you observed it just held the charge voltage when full at 14.4 V.

I did not want to replace it (major surgery required) and added a circuit instead that turns off the charge from the converter at 14.0 Volts (i.e. ~95% of capacity or more) with a power relay and turns it back on at 13.0V battery voltage (usually around 50-60% discharge).

Unfortunately I did not find such a gadget off the shelf and had to build it myself. Neat electronics project but obviously not for everybody.
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Old 11-06-2021, 07:46 AM   #11
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I have decided to put in a Victron Multiplus II inverter/charger. This will replace the 2 inverters and the converter/charger I have now. And I'll just hook it directly to the power distro panel so that eliminates the sub panel. Much cleaner install and I get a lot more control over charge parameters.
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Old 11-06-2021, 08:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
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watch this, it explains charging Lithium battery's with great details. In my opinion Victron IP-22 chargers are the way to go if you need just a charger. If you need more then 30 amps output your best option is two chargers or look at an inverter upgrade. For me I will be removing my Magnum 1200watt and replacing it with a Victron Multiplus II , its capable of providing power at the same time as utility power. Basically if I only have 120/30amp park power I can still use the 2nd AC (for a while depending on battery bank size). You set the victron to how many amps are available and the inverter will make up the balance of the load up to its rated output. so 30 amps=3600 watt total plus the your inverter rated power (2000~3000 watts)= 6600 total available when its programed to hybrid mode.

Interesting video! Apparently the charger's job is more simple with Li than with lead acid. No "float" needed, just charge it back up when it drops below a chosen/set voltage. Or have I missed something....?
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