Wind Turbines for Pull-Behinds?

[move on]

Originally Posted by atreis

Storing large amounts of power is done today, and has been for years.
https://www.duke-energy.com/Energy-E...e-Hydro-Plants

Conventional power plants take a very long time to spin up, so after they start them they keep them going when demand falls. Many just dump it, while these plants in NC use excess generation to pump water into higher reservoirs and then use hydro to supplement their output during high demand.

Large battery storage systems aren't that different conceptually. They're just a different implementation that doesn't rely on having the right geography.

I think I'll go with Duke Energy: nuclear power in conjunction with pumped storage. It avoids the problem of seized, rusting windmills.

[ByeTheWay]

The only guy I knew that had it, complained about the vibration he felt inside his 5er. His mast was anchored under a tire on his 5er and the vibration transferred inside.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

I've asked the mods to discourage this poor fellow from posting in the "Green" section since he has no interest in these technologies and just comes here to trash and derail the threads. Over and over.... Maybe if a few more members complain to the mods something would be done.

When I worked for Duke Power (later Duke Energy) I was hired for my nuclear experience. At the time I was working only masters in environmental engineer. I turned my masters thesis into a marketing plan called 'Sustainable Energy Integration'. This resulted in winning contracts for which I was paid. For a time, I worked in the Duke's renewable group in Charlotte.

I learned to sail in the navy and where I also started RVing. That was in 75. I build a zero energy house with solar. Also heated with wood.

So I have a huge interest in energy and the environment.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by atreis

Storing large amounts of power is done today, and has been for years.
https://www.duke-energy.com/Energy-E...e-Hydro-Plants

.....

Large battery storage systems aren't that different conceptually. They're just a different implementation that doesn't rely on having the right geography.

Pump storage stores water not power. When I worked for Duke I was not involved in these projects so I can not speak to the merits. Duke, TVA, and others created man made lakes for cooling. Somewhere along the way I became cooling water for spent fuel so I had to learn a little about merits and failure modes of hydro.

While hydro may have critics, I like mountain lakes. I would be really surprise if batteries have any positive environmental attributes. Huge difference conceptually.

[Rexlion]

If we could hook differences of opinion to a steam boiler, we could power a city.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by Rexlion

If we could hook differences of opinion to a steam boiler, we could power a city.

I do agree about tofu.

Another thread reminded me of a conversation over beer after sailing. Our resident concrete expert who had retired from the Corp of Engineers came out of retirement to consult on energy storage project which lifted concrete blocks.

This intern reminded me of a renewable energy project that might work for an RV. Streaming a paddle wheel in a stream to turn a generator might work better than wind.

I do recall Walt telling me something about Friends of the River and Jane Fonda's lawyer.

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

I've read about several areas that have been installing large number of used electric car lithium batteries (<80% of factory capacity) to serve as load buffers in grid operations. This helps to reduce the performance issues of solar and wind.

Historically power grids have had very little or no energy storage capacity used for load balancing. Pumped hydro is type of buffer, but it is for peak loads not for load balancing in very short term periods.

If you wondered where used lithium car battery packs, this is one such use.

Electric grid operators have very little control over demand, besides turning off grid segments (rolling blackouts). Since input must match load at any given time, grid managers must be able to bring power produces on and off line in real time. Many power plants just are not designed to be throttled to do this. Thus a grid must contain a variety of power generating plants. Some to produce base load, mid point plants and peak load plants. Lithium batteries offer a new option to this complex problem allowing better integration of renewable power sources.

Indeed. Though if the "solid state" battery that is being touted succeeds and shows up in automobiles in five years, that could replace Lithium in the grid and in our RVs.

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by followingsea

Storing large electricity batteries is an example of epic failure. Think about it.

Not a failure because it's worked well where it's been needed. Puerto Rico, Alaska, Hawaii.

Originally Posted by followingsea

Storing small amounts of power is done all the time. If it was a good idea, the power industry would be routinely doing it.

It is a very good idea. It's badly needed. Check the Duck curve in California.
There are just hurdles that prevent routine usage. Lack of geography (pump/hydro), cost (all), environmental impact, etc.

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by followingsea

Pump storage stores water not power.

Not quite. The water is "stored for just some hours." So not really stored. It's more like cycled. And, it's not power or "water" that is stored. It's energy. Potential energy to be precise. Water is just the medium that is used.

[move on]

Don't think of it as pumped storage. Think of it as renewable hydroelectric power. Everybody likes hydroelectric power, even the Greenies. The only difference is that for those times when there is not enough water coming into the reservoir we have to keep it full by pumping the water back up with an auxiliary coal or nuclear power plant.

[atreis]

Originally Posted by followingsea

While hydro may have critics, I like mountain lakes. I would be really surprise if batteries have any positive environmental attributes. Huge difference conceptually.

I like mountain lakes too, but they don't work in most of the country. No appropriate mountain valleys to dam up for when the wind isn't blowing or the sun isn't shining. Batteries have the potential to be able to service those areas in a similar way. Longer term viability and environmental impact is hard to see without having that long term... It's being tested though in Aus and CA, so we'll see.

[ShelbyM]

Originally Posted by followingsea

So I have a huge interest in energy and the environment.

And yet you have nothing constructive to add to any of these discussions.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

And yet you have nothing constructive to add to any of these discussions.

You certainly hit the nail on the head there!!!

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by ShelbyM

And yet you have nothing constructive to add to any of these discussions.

You only find things “constructive” that agree with your way of thinking. Unfortunately typical these days.