50 amp vs 30 amp what's the big deal

[MisterT]

Originally Posted by Alan_Hepburn

Actually, the 50A breakers are not separate, but are ganged together so that both will trip, or switch, together.

agreed: the 'gang' of the two provides for a single Neutral shared between them, which is why they are designed to 'trip' together. If they were really two 'separate' 50a breakers, it would require 6 wires instead of just 4.


enjoy! : )

[325BH]

Originally Posted by MisterT

agreed: the 'gang' of the two provides for a single Neutral shared between them, which is why they are designed to 'trip' together. If they were really two 'separate' 50a breakers, it would require 6 wires instead of just 4.





enjoy! : )

No, they’re tied together so they cut power to both hots if either leg exceeds the breaker rating. The shared neutral has nothing to do with it. In most use cases (RVs are a special case), a single device is being used on that circuit (branch circuits being another exception) and the desired outcome is to open both hots.

It is very common to have 15/20 amp shared neutral circuits in a home on separate independent breakers.

In RV use, having separate independent breakers would actually be a more suitable implementation (as long as you don’t have 240 volt devices, which some high end RVs do) however I’m not sure they even make single 50 amp breakers. It would not hurt anything though. (Again, as long as you are 120 volt only.)

[twinboat]

The breaker is a dual breaker so it can not be put in the panel wrong. Every breaker position alternates between L1 and L2 .

If you were to use two seperate 50 amp breakers on the same bus ( One space apart ) in the main panel, then you have the potential to overload the single neutral.

[Myssdragn]

Originally Posted by twinboat

The breaker is a dual breaker so it can not be put in the panel wrong. Every breaker position alternates between L1 and L2 .

If you were to use two seperate 50 amp breakers on the same bus ( One space apart ) in the main panel, then you have the potential to overload the single neutral.

This is correct.

Originally Posted by Forkyfork

I won't limit myself to 50A. There are some awesome spots at myrtle beach that get turned down because they are 30A. You guys keep turning them down. More for me.

We aren't full electric I will never run a full AC coach. Not my thing. Its about freedom. Don't like to have to rely on being plugged in to do everything. Don't want the expense and weight of enough batteries to boondock.

My first class C I could boondock one deep cycle 12v battery for days. I was in my 20s and the heat didn't seem to bother me as much. lol

Originally Posted by 325BH

“50 amp service “ is @ 240 volts. 240 volt service is actually 240/120 which means it serves both 240 and 120 volts. 50 amp service is 100 amps @ 120 volts. This is all regular old 50 amp service.

30 amp RV service is just 30 amps at 120 volts.

[Forkyfork]

Originally Posted by MisterT

I've had thoughts about this too... it seems that the industry is catering to those who want to depend less on other power sources and more on electricity for almost everything. Propane is certainly a great power source, for many needs, but it also has some detractions - how to carry it, some dangers with it's usage, and where/how to refill it. Moving to an electric refrigeration, cooking, and water heating pretty much does away with the detractions of propane.
There are many, many folks with all electric homes, mine included. It has it's drawbacks when the power supply is lost. No propane backup. No solar backup. No generator backup(well, after last months storm, we do now!). RVs are an extension of what we have and expect at our homes, nothing more really.

Our house is all electric. We also have 0 water as in none when the power is out.
A tornado came through and wiped the power out to everywhere. We were out over 12 hours the city was out longer than that.

We spent the time in the RV. Didn't even need to start up the genset. It was cold out, we had heat, hot water cooked dinner (sausage, cabbage and noodles) and watched TV using the inverter. It went out later in the day so much of the time we had lights on. Granted we could have run the generator but who wants to listen to that for 12 hours. Had to have heat from somewhere. Really glad we are in the habit of keeping the water tank full.

[nothermark]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Nothermake, just try to buy a new 40-45 foot coach that is NOT all electric. They don't exist! Which says that the market is either smarter than you, or you are smarter than everybody else in the industry.

I've had it both ways and I agree with the marketplace. All electric is better.

It's a good thing I don't want one. ;-)

I see the trend with both stuffing a residential refrigerator in a small unit that does not support enough batteries and the large units with the electric cook top and huge inverter. For whatever reason the folks building those units are tossing basic engineering considerations out the window to put out products that don't really support the idea of a mobile product that can do stand alone for any reasonable length of time. I wonder how well they will be doing in the future. Will they be hot used items or something to avoid as sanity penetrates. Given the crowd dynamics of lemmings I would not bet.

[nothermark]

If you look at dual breakers for 240 VAC they are used for safety reasons. You will find them in feeds to the panel box and when connecting to a 240 VAC device. The idea is that if one leg trips it will take down the other. That theoretically protects somebody trying to fix a problem from encountering the other 120 VAC source thus being injured or killed.

[325BH]

Originally Posted by twinboat

The breaker is a dual breaker so it can not be put in the panel wrong. Every breaker position alternates between L1 and L2 .

If you were to use two seperate 50 amp breakers on the same bus ( One space apart ) in the main panel, then you have the potential to overload the single neutral.

That is correct, however that does not mean a dual breaker is directly related to a shared neutral. Like I said, shared neutrals are a common item in household main breaker panels and are on separate breakers.

There is nothing special about a double breaker internally. The only difference is the mechanical connection between the two throws.

[saddlesore]

Our Coach is as close to an "All Electric" as I will go.
Everything is electric (inc fridge)...EXCEPT.. the 3 burner cooktop and gas oven..I do the cooking and I prefer gas to electric.... and if all else fails for whatever reason I can build a pot of coffee and fix a meal without pedestal power or running the genset.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by jim1521

David, do you really have 50A on each side for 100A total? I'm understood that you only got 25A on each side for 50A total. I don't recall seeing parks offering 100A service, but I could be mistaken (still learnin' here).

Nope, two 50 amp breakers for a total of 100 amps, they call it 50 amps though.

[glenn allen]

Originally Posted by MisterT

yes, '50amp RV service' is actually MUCH more than 30amps, it's actually 100amps!

which is why you see 4 holes in the 50a plug, versus just 3 in the 30amp

50amp RV service is a Double-Pole 50amp Breaker - meaning that TWO separate 50amp 120v Hot Lines are powering the coach, unlike just a single 30amp breaker. With TWO lines, you have a total of 100amps(shared between two sides of your breaker box)

A 30amp coach will have a single 30a Main breaker for it's breaker box, but a 50amp coach will have TWO separate 50amp Main breakers for TWO sides to it's breaker box.

so, 50amp RV service is actually 100amps, versus the single 30amp service, a total difference of 70amps of incoming power! not just another 20 amps.
BIG DIFFERENCE.

A normal 30 amp service in a RV is 120v ac 30 amps single phase. By code it is a three wire service. One wire is 120 vac one wire is neutral, and the round pin is a equipment ground.

A normal 50 amp service in a RV is 240 vac 50 amps single phase. By code it is a four wire service using a twin breaker. One wire is 120 vac to ground the second wire is also 120 vac to ground, between the two is 240 vac. The third wire is neutral and the fourth is the equipment ground.

To use a pair of non-handle tied 50 amp breakers would create a hazard. This is why it is almost impossible to find single gang 50 amp breakers.

The chassis and exterior of the RV is bonded to the equipment ground. The white wire is the neutral and in a four wire service is not connected to ground. If the white wire is bonded to ground and the supply receptacle is protected by a GFI you may have the problem of having the GFI trip as soon as the RV is plugged in.
Not to mention the code (safety) violation bonding the neutral and ground together creates.

BTW I boondock just fine as far as power is concerned, also currently get along just fine with a three battery 12vdc bank. Have a problem of running out of water on the fourth day.

[timjet]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

Our Coach is as close to an "All Electric" as I will go.
Everything is electric (inc fridge)...EXCEPT.. the 3 burner cooktop and gas oven..I do the cooking and I prefer gas to electric.... and if all else fails for whatever reason I can build a pot of coffee and fix a meal without pedestal power or running the genset.

You are running against the tide. All electric is the future. BUT, I agree with you, I like cooking on my propane stove, hot propane furnace and dual propane/electric water heater for faster hot water.
Different strokes for different folks.

[wa8yxm]

I agree that a coach with an Energy management System (Intelletec type can do well on 30 amps. but like I said, when I'm on a 50 amp site I can run EVERYTHING A/C's water heater, Fridge, and electrical kitchen appliances all at the same time. IN fact I would have to add both heaters and A/C's (Space heaters) at the same time to hit 50 amps.. Simply On 30 amps (I do not have an EMS) I need to be aware. Many folks have Ava Gabore syndrom (As Mrs. Oliver Douglass on Green Acers she kept overoading the generator).

And then there's the Tim Allen school of MORE POWER MORE POWER.

Oh by the way. I use both 40, 50 and 30/30 amp sites usually with no problems but then I also have training in electronics and know how to add amps.

[MattFL]

Originally Posted by db7512

We have a new all electric coach and you can use 30 but you are limited to what you can run. Don't be surprised if one day we have 100 amp in these RV 's.

50amp is 100amps, since its 50 amps on 2 legs