Community Forums

begete · 09-01-2010, 11:52 AM

We almost got "taken" yesterday. I don't know if this is the right place to post this, so moderators, please move if appropriate as we want to protect others who might be RV shopping from this widespread scam. This is the message I sent to all our e-mail buddies and posted on various chat sites.
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I spent the day with the EBay Spoof team and filing reports with the FBI at their request.

I almost got royally scammed, and I used to prosecute fraud cases!! As some of you know, we have been looking at motorhomes, and found one we really liked at an unbelievable price - on Criag's list.

When I was doing fraud cases, I always said, "if something sounds too good to be true, it most likely isn't." I was fortunate this time to have followed my own advice.

I thought there was a possibility that an offer of a really nice 2003 MinnieWinnie for $15,000 was potentially real, because in 2004 we bought a 10 year old motorhome for $13,500 and never had a problem with it.

But before I sent any money to what purportedly was "EBay" I called them, told them of my suspicions and they confirmed this scam has been going on since January, is being run out of Rumania and the invoicing and warranty sites are fake EBay sites.

The "woman" selling the motorhome on the Seattle Craig's List purportedly ended up with it after a divorce and needed cash so was letting it go cheap. Even though the posting was on Craig's List, she claimed to be selling it via a "contract" with Ebay. That was one of a few small flaws that made me suspicious. I could not find a listing for it on EBay. and I never heard of EBay acting as an escrow agent, holding the funds for 5 days after delivery until you verified that the vehicle you purchased was as promised or EBay would refund your money.
I have bought and sold on Ebay, including our last motorhome, and never had that kind of option.
That is why I called them to see if it was a scam and it was.

These crooks are very good. The invoice I received from "EBay" looks exactly like a real Ebay invoice, as do the materials explaining their escrow procedure. I think that if I hadn't spent all those years investigating frauds, I might have fallen for it, even as skeptical as I am. In fact, my heart did fall for it. I LOVED that RV!!

So beware. These scammers are getting more and more sophisticated.

jkherbold · 09-01-2010, 12:09 PM

We looked at motorhome ads all over the US. You are correct. There are a bunch of, shall we say, questionable offerings. Don't give up though. This spring we found a 2006 Winnie Aspect with 20k miles, in unbelievable showroom condition on Craigslist in Spokane. Fortunately, we had relatives nearby. They looked at it for us, confirmed the sellers were real, and we picked it up for a fair price.

If our relatives had not been there, we probably would have passed it as well.

RV Wizard · 09-02-2010, 03:11 AM

Thanks for posting these scams. Others may also post here of issues like this.

ParkyJordan · 09-02-2010, 08:38 AM

thanks for the heads up begete, its good to know the inside info to help us keep a little vigilant

begete · 09-02-2010, 09:19 AM

Some follow up:

After having Ebay confirm it was a scam, I "answered" the Craig's list ad again, after the poor divorcee had already "sold" the RV to me, from another e-mail account. Sure enough, I got the same boilerplate, "personalized" reply from the "Seller." Additionally, one of my neighbors is a retired techie and he looked at the "invoice" as could not distinguish it from a genuine EBay invoice except that Ebay always uses PayPal, and we both know that EBay never acts as any type of escrow agent.

Later yesterday a similar motorhome was again listed on Craig's list for a similar price...btw - usually something strange like $13, 407 - I think they are converting a round number of Euros? - with a philosophical "sales pitch" such as explore the "beauties of nature".... or "now that you are retired".....and the seller's screen name is a gmail or Yahoo account.

Ebay has very good instructions for avoiding fraud online. Everyone should read them.

In the meantime, other than EBay, Craig's list and here, can anyone suggest other sources to purchase a used RV other than dealers?

RVDude · 09-02-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begete

...and I never heard of EBay acting as an escrow agent, holding the funds for 5 days after delivery until you verified that the vehicle you purchased was as promised...

Not to diminish any aspect of these fraud cases, it is extremely important to know that eBay does in fact recommend/advise one and only one legitimate escrow service, www.escrow.com to broker transactions.

You can also read about the one eBay recommended escrow service on the eBay site here. Please note, eBay themselves are NOT an escrow agent, only www.escrow.com.

Personally, I'd ALWAYS use this escrow service on any major eBay purchase and would highly recommend everyone do the same. If a seller refuses, that should send up a major flag.

**NLOVNIT** · 09-02-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begete

...In the meantime, other than EBay, Craig's list and here, can anyone suggest other sources to purchase a used RV other than dealers?

Local newspapers, RVTraderonline.

Lori-

Route 66 · 09-02-2010, 01:07 PM

Google "rvs for sale" for lots of web sites.

wa8yxm · 09-02-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begete

These crooks are very good. The invoice I received from "EBay" looks exactly like a real Ebay invoice, as do the materials explaining their escrow procedure. I think that if I hadn't spent all those years investigating frauds, I might have fallen for it, even as skeptical as I am. In fact, my heart did fall for it. I LOVED that RV!!

So beware. These scammers are getting more and more sophisticated.

I have one request for you sir:

STICK AROUND

We need more folks like you who are trained to spot a scam... I have seen many.. I do have a "Fraud check" procedure I follow but from the sounds of what you posted.. I'd have gotten taken by this one.. Thanks for catching it.

Now only if "she" could be forced to anti up the motor homes she has never delivered.

begete · 09-04-2010, 10:14 AM

ZXS 2004 Fleetwood Jamboree 22B

I believe this to be a good example of yet another scam by the same group in Rumania. Check it out. Note the touchy feely stuff at the end of the post. Asking same price as before, but model year has increased. Already reported my suspicions to Craig's list. If anyone has a junk e-mail address, give "helen" a shout and see if you get the same reply I got to my requests for more info :-)

frankdamp · 09-04-2010, 10:30 AM

The local newspaper worked for us. We'd spent about 9 months looking all over the country on the web, but DW was very leery of buying a used MH and then our first trip being 2/3 the way across the country! That's one of the very few disadvantages of living in Anacortes.

We spotted the one we bought about 20 miles away. The original owner was selling for medical reasons. The price was good enough that we didn't haggle. There was enough under NADA to cover a new set of tires. It's in really nice condition - just a couple of minor cosmetic blemishes on the outside and it needs a new slide-topper on the living room slide.

Have taken three shortish trips so far and just love it. There might be a 10-day run partway down the Oregon coast before the weather gets too cold.

Downsizer · 09-04-2010, 05:20 PM

Almost happened to us last year. We saw a beautiful RV with lots of pics and all. She wanted us to send money thru Ebay and since we were financing, she asked if we could borrow from a friend to secure the Coach before someone else took it. Our Bank people recognized it as a scam and advised us... THANK GOODNESS... we were too excited about the "deal" to see the fraud!!! Tried to warn Ebay, but can't get to a real person!!
She said all the Title papers were being held until money changed hands THEN we could see them!!!! CAUTION

begete · 09-04-2010, 06:13 PM

Yep - that's the same scam!

skimaniac6 · 09-07-2010, 08:37 AM

This is a response I got to an ad for a Rino on Craigs list, it didn't sound legit so I just walked away.

Hi,

"First of all I want to thank you for your interest in my ATV (2007 YAMAHA RHINO 660). I sell it at this price ($ 2000 ) because i just finished the divorce with my husband. It has only 300 miles!!!The ATV is paid off,clean title,i have title in hand.
The divorce has finished 6 months ago and the ATV is mine now. After the divorce I was forced to buy a new house. Following the financial crisis I can't afford to pay the bank and I decided to sell the ATV. I bought it new and has only been garage kept. As you can see by the pictures it is in excellent condition. I just had it serviced and put in a new battery a couple of months ago. It has many extras including Custom Wheels and Tires, MTX Speakers, Alpine Stereo, Light Bar, Hard Top, AMX Racing Graphics, Wind Sheild. This atv runs as good as a new one and has no dings, dents, or scratches.
From the beginning you have to know that for the payment I request only secure pay, I prefer the payment to be done using eBay services (I will receive the payment only after you receive and inspect the ATV and only if you agree to buy it).
We will use a safe payment method because I am affiliated at eBay and I have a purchase protection account. The last price for this ATV is $2,000. I will pay for shipping and handling.
If you are interested in buying it please provide me your full name and address so I can initiate the deal through eBay.
I will wait your answer (if you are interested to buy) very soon."