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Old 11-18-2019, 09:49 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by okcnewbie View Post
You are most welcome.

I am still working through your thoughts on RV park technology. My first inclination is to think that the average RV'er doesn't want to pay for better technology. My thought is that the cost would have to be passed on to us. I would probably rather get a campsite for 45 dollars over 55 or 60.
The other thing I wonder about is 5g and our phones, etc. It's possible in the next 5 years or so that most of the nation is covered with fast cell service and plans that allow streaming.
I also disagree with the poster that thinks that most campers are "unplugging". This is not likely in this day and age.

I take your points. I must add however that I have not found any correlation at all in all of the hundreds of RV parks I have stayed in between their having, or not having WiFi and their price.


Pricing in the RV Park World is primarily based on the same things all businesses take into consideration.


Location: if you are a seedy little gravel lot RV Park with electric and water within two miles of Yellowstone Natl Park...your rates will NOT reflect your "amenities" rather skew heavily towards location. Whether they have WiFi or not.



On the other hand if you are a fancy RV Resort with multiple Pickleball Courts, Swimming Pools, Hot tubs etc etc then your pricing is based more on amenities and high overhead...WiFi is a small cost when compared to that.


RV Parks are so vastly different one to the other they almost don't inhabit the same business "universe" unlike other businesses, for example, Airlines. They all inhabit a well recognized space in business and generally operate and price in very similar ways, look the same and offer very similar amenities and charge in very similar ways.


You are right about 5G. It will change a lot going forward. 5G at up to 100 gigabits/sec is about 100 Times faster than 4G. That will make a personal WiFi hotspot more viable. However almost all mobile phone companies are getting rid of their personal mobile hotspots. (Which is what I use when a parks WiFi is dial-up slow.) We have yet to see how the phone companies will charge or parcel out this new fast service. If past performance is any guide we are scr#wed as customers.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:55 AM   #86
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I've read every post from the OP forward on this thread and yes my first impression was his original post was a downer on the lifestyle and someone fed up with it all.

Perhaps the OP should've included his wonderful rebuttal story of the unknown music festival his DW and he came upon in Baja in his original post as an example of the many
many fond memories of people, places, and events his years full-timing afforded them.

I agree with itchytoes in his defense of campgrounds as small business owners across the country and the comparison of the roadside vegetable stand vs. Kroeger's. The nicest most beautiful perfect campground my DW and I have come acrosss, Elkhorn Ridge in Spearfish, SD, which I gave an 11 rating out of 10 on Campground Reviews, we would never go back too. The folks that ran the CG and those visiting in their 500K rigs and up didn't do the kind of camping we like. It was more of a fashion show of one uppityness and look at me. Someplace like that seems to be the type of CG the OP was more interested in. We much more preferred the place we stayed at in Custer, SD run by a charming warm and friendly husband and wife team.

It appears to me that some of the issues regarding more and more people downsizing and living in small campers parked in local campgrounds is a story more out of the West Coast and part of the bigger story that gets very little national attention the enormous cost of housing up and down the coast, in many ways brought on by ridiculous taxation and public employee benefits.

I don't see a problem with large RV's sitting on dealers lots. The production of those rigs is keeping people employed as the hot RV market starts to cool down. And, the availability of inventory also will keep the prices down for those who like bigger is better whether new or used.

I don't know how the OP can criticize the young family's getting into the camping lifestyle. That disagreement is counter to most thinking it is great to get both the Milinnels and their kids out enjoying the fresh outdoors, spending time together and exploring more than their video games, cell phones, and 500 TV channels. Do I like a bunch of high pitched screaming kids running around my campsite, no, but I don't deny them the pleasure of being there any more than me? When I "shop" campgrounds for a trip I pay close attention to the amenities, or not, that may signal families and a lot of kids.

All told, a very good discussion with many thoughts and opinions that boil down to good old different strokes for different folks with no harm in any.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:58 AM   #87
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It’s called being passive aggressive.
“Oh thank you for those who support me”
It’s called victimstance.
“See how people are being negative, when all I am is right.”
Where ever you go (weather RVing or not) you will find people who look at life differently than you do. I’m thankful all my life experiences have brought me to a Kinder place.
What fried-My-donut was the reference about the family living in a fifth wheel. Perhaps they had a house fire dunno. There are people who CHOOSE to live a certain lifestyle some are forced to make a choice. The sociocultural and economic status of RVing is as diverse as any other community.
The only constant in life is change.
The wonderful thing about RVing that if you don’t like your surroundings you can move.
To me your post simply stated the obvious.
Just because I didn’t care for the TONE of your paintbrush while talking about your experience Is my prerogative.
I’m done now.
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Old 11-18-2019, 10:11 AM   #88
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Well I like any frank and honest post; even if I don't agree with it.

In your case I happily read your thread like so many others and was not moved to anything other agree with most of what you said.

I was disappointed that the moderator saw fit to Edit your post: The way I look at it, it is no longer your post but their version of it. So sad. I can't think of anything that would warrant that based on the clarity and logic of the rest of your post.

With respect to crappy RV parks, I am thankful there are clubs out there such as Good Sams that demand a certain level of quality to remain in the group. Never was this so apparent than on a trip to Mile Zero of the Alaska Highway, in the middle of nowhere Alberta, we passed though a small town called Valleyview, where we noted a local RV site was so rated. While sceptical, it turned out to exceptionally well run, and clean. Go figure.

So enjoy you re-retirement, I hope health was not the key issue as it can catch up on you at the worst times. If you kept your rig you can still venture out whenever you feel like it.

Best of luck.

Thanks for your kind words...
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:22 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vincee View Post
I've read every post from the OP forward on this thread and yes my first impression was his original post was a downer on the lifestyle and someone fed up with it all.

Perhaps the OP should've included his wonderful rebuttal story of the unknown music festival his DW and he came upon in Baja in his original post as an example of the many
many fond memories of people, places, and events his years full-timing afforded them.

My OP was an OVERVIEW of my five years on the road and that I originally intended to follow this thread up with another that was more focused on individual experiences both Positive and negative...I felt including those extended narratives would be too long and not really relevant to what my Op was intended to get across.



Quote:
Originally Posted by vincee View Post
It appears to me that some of the issues regarding more and more people downsizing and living in small campers parked in local campgrounds is a story more out of the West Coast and part of the bigger story that gets very little national attention the enormous cost of housing up and down the coast, in many ways brought on by ridiculous taxation and public employee benefits.

I agree with your statement here and have no problem with this trend or the people involved at all except that it is sad that it is the way things are economically for an increasing number of folks. I would note that I see this trend all over the US from Maryland to California.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vincee View Post
I don't see a problem with large RV's sitting on dealers lots. The production of those rigs is keeping people employed as the hot RV market starts to cool down. And, the availability of inventory also will keep the prices down for those who like bigger is better whether new or used.

The problem with all of those Huge RV,s sitting on dealers lots is this: It's bad for the RV industry and shows that the RV industry is late in catching on to what has been clear to others for a long time. The employment will still be there if they start making the right sized RV.s for the market...which most have pivoted to already, albeit late.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vincee View Post
I don't know how the OP can criticize the young family's getting into the camping lifestyle.

I didn't criticize them in any way. I simply pointed out the fact that they existed and were a new-ish phenomenon in the RV park world. I made no judgement one way or the other. And I believe a careful reading of what I wrote supports that.

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Originally Posted by vincee View Post
All told, a very good discussion with many thoughts and opinions that boil down to good old different strokes for different folks with no harm in any.

I appreciate you point of view and thank you.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:51 AM   #90
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It’s called being passive aggressive.
........ I’m thankful all my life experiences have brought me to a Kinder place.


What fried-My-donut was the reference about the family living in a fifth wheel. ~
That first part actually made me LOL.

There's a negative reference to a family living in an RV? Have you seen families living in RV's? I have. If I mention that I've seen families living in RV's are you going to assume that I mean this in a negative way. It's just a fact based on my small (compared to OP) sample size.
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:09 PM   #91
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All this talk about you just acknowledging changes and pointing out facts, yet you still haven't realized that it's you who's changed, not the RV world.

People buying RVs are more and more broke, but they keep buying RVs which are continually getting more and more expensive. Something doesn't add up here.

I just drove around the RV park I'm staying in now. There are more RVs over 35 feet than under, by a large margin, but RV manufacturers are only selling small RVs. Again, something doesn't add up.

There are so many huge RVs just sitting on dealer lots, but most RV manufacturers have pivoted to only building smaller RVs. Something isn't adding up.

People getting into RVing are getting younger and younger? Young people have been getting into RVing since RVs have been made. Absolutely nothing has changed there, except that you are getting older, so most people just starting out are younger than you. You used to be young, so at that time, most RVers were either the same age as you or old. RVing was an old rich man's game. Now you're old and financially stable, so most RVers are younger and not as financially stable as you, leading you to think that the RV demographic is getting younger and broker, when in fact, you just got old and financially stable. When you start to notice that people around you are getting younger than they used to be, take a good long look in the mirror. It's practically always just you getting older. There will come a time in your life (hopefully) when everyone on the planet is younger than you. Then will the whole world have been getting younger, or is it you who just got old?

When I first got my license, it was always older guys who had the cool cars. Now that I'm in my 30's, it's guys my age that have the cool cars. In another 30 years, the cool cars are going to be driven by young guys who have no appreciation for true classic cars and drive like maniacs! Except, it's always guys in their 30's who drive the cool cars. The demographic doesn't change, we just get old.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:11 PM   #92
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Here are some quotes from differing sources about the demographics of the RV'ing world:


From Escapees quoting the US Census:


As anticipated, most census respondents (57%) identified as being of or more than 65 years of age. When asked how many years they have been RVing, 36% of respondents selected 15+, and 48% of them currently travel full-time. Given these figures, it’s reasonable to conclude that many of today’s RVers have been RVing at least part-time since their 40s and 50s.


According to the RVIA:


A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice. Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA.



From the Washington post:


Interest in “RVing” — either full time or on weekends — appears to be picking up, especially among young couples. Half of new sales are going to Americans under 45, and purchases by people of color are rising...


From: CNBC


Millennials are a major target market for RV companies. According to the 2017 North American Camping Survey from KOA, a private campground company, millennials make up 38 percent of campers, but 31 percent of the general population.




There are literally hundreds of pages of these articles out there. Just Google "changing demographics of rv'ing"


They all point the same direction. The RV world is changing and in different ways than in the past.


These all support my contention of what I have witnessed over the past 5 years at HUNDREDS of RV Parks, Natl Parks and othr camping and RV'ing areas.


Again I make no judgement now, nor did I in my original post about whether this is good or bad. But it is a fact and it is the change I have seen.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:39 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by SuzanneH View Post
I don't find the OP to be unpleasant in tone or content. He is entitled to his opinion.

I do find many of the subsequent posts to be extremely negative, to the point of rudeness.

Why did you feel a need to gang up on him? He's not criticizing YOU...yet you definitely are criticizing HIM.

Sigh.
I couldn’t agree more.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:48 PM   #94
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That’s a fantastic story. And really cool when it was unplanned.
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Old 11-18-2019, 01:55 PM   #95
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He was “living” in his RV, not camping. There’s a big difference.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:15 PM   #96
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You do it until you don't want to do it anymore. A good life enjoys many transitions.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:22 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Itchytoe View Post
All this talk about you just acknowledging changes and pointing out facts, yet you still haven't realized that it's you who's changed, not the RV world....

When I first got my license, it was always older guys who had the cool cars. Now that I'm in my 30's, it's guys my age that have the cool cars. In another 30 years, the cool cars are going to be driven by young guys who have no appreciation for true classic cars and drive like maniacs! Except, it's always guys in their 30's who drive the cool cars. The demographic doesn't change, we just get old.


About the cars, aging and coolness.



Now I had a fairly new Austin Healy 3000 in High school (1970) (For those that do not know this car it is a Classic, convertible British Sports car)



THAT was a very cool car...my best friend had a Mustang, also a cool car. As I recall neither of us were in our 30's.


When I was in my 30's I had at various times...


A Land Rover 88, a Saab 96V4 and a Citroen DS 21 Pallas...De Gaulle rode in those... By some measures Very cool cars...though none were my daily driver.


In my 50's I had an Aston Martin DB9...A cool car by many standards, at least James Bond drives one. And later a BMW 740il Maybe a bit staid and not cool but a damned good car. And fast.


I don't define myself by the cars I've been fortunate enough to own or how cool they are. All of the above were way cool to me.


Nor do I think that the car issue is by any measure a way to judge where a person is in life, what they think or in what way they see the world around them.


And demographics do change. And so do I. And I continue to Change. But not in the ways that you think. Nor am I the person you imagine me to be. Nor am I the person you have ASSUMED with no evidence that I am.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:30 PM   #98
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Given these figures, it’s reasonable to conclude that many of today’s RVers have been RVing at least part-time since their 40s and 50s.
And when you're in your 70's, those people are young. Like I said, it's perspective.


Quote:
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A million Americans live full-time in RVs, according to the RV Industry Association. Some have to do it because they can’t afford other options, but many do it by choice.
That's always been the case. There have always been some people living in RVs because they can't afford other options. Look at their choice of words. Look at where "some" and "many" are in that sentence. You have to know how to read between the lines.



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Last year was a record for RV sales, according to the data firm Statistical Surveys. More than 10.5 million households own at least one RV, a jump from 2005 when 7.5 million households had RVs, according to RVIA.
Really? Luxury items are seeing record sales not long after a major recession? That's astounding. I wonder what would happen if you added up the sales over the last 10 years and averaged them per capita. Sales were at record lows back in 2008 to 2010, now they're hitting record highs. I bet sales are still about the same for the last 10 years as they were in the decade that preceded it when adjusted per capita. Weather vs climate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTFT View Post
Interest in “RVing” — either full time or on weekends — appears to be picking up, especially among young couples. Half of new sales are going to Americans under 45, and purchases by people of color are rising...
And they reported the exact opposite back in the last recession. Ebb and flow...
Really? 1/3 of the population is hitting that age and financial status where they can afford such luxury items, and are buying them more? Again, that shouldn't be surprising. Younger people are buying more new luxury items than older people? That's not surprising either; it's exactly what one should expect. Grandpa has retired and is living on a fixed income. $50,000 for a new RV when his current one is working fine just isn't in the budget. Do you really expect anything else? It's always been this way, except it was Gen X a few years ago, and Boomers before that, and the Silent generation before that. Next is Gen Z, so get ready for them. All those young whippersnappers are just going to invade the RV world by storm!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BTFT View Post
There are literally hundreds of pages of these articles out there. Just Google "changing demographics of rv'ing"

They all point the same direction. The RV world is changing and in different ways than in the past.
You can also google "facts about flat Earth" and get literally hundreds of pages of articles all pointing in the same direction. Clearly, that must be true if you can google stuff about it. The same thing goes for "The truth of (insert random religion that isn't yours here)". You'll get thousands of pages all pointing in one direction, but that doesn't make them right, does it?


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These all support my contention of what I have witnessed over the past 5 years at HUNDREDS of RV Parks, Natl Parks and othr camping and RV'ing areas.
And all those flat earther websites support their contention that the Earth is flat. If all you look for is information supporting your idea, that's all you're going to find.
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