California plans to ban small IC engines by Jan 2024

[Fast E]

Originally Posted by charliez

Eventually California will ban California and they'll just eliminate themselves.

We can only hope!

[atreis]

I have an EGO 21" mower that's now 7 years old, and still going strong. It's not the self-propelled version though. I was skeptical of the reliability of the self-propelled version. We're on the 2nd pair of batteries and will likely replace them again in another year.

I also have a Ryobi riding lawn mower (very similar to this one: https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396016584 ) It uses 4 12V lead acid AGM batteries, and when they're new can go for 1.5-2 hours on a charge, which is enough to do about 3 acres. I mow 4 acres with it, so have to do a quick charge halfway through - takes about an hour - then I mow the other half. As the batteries age, it can take more charges to get it done. Once I got up to needing 4 charges, I replaced the batteries. First set lasted for 3 years, and the current set is 2 years old and still going strong. I've been using it for 5 years now. I had to repair one of the control units for the drive motor (that propels it forward), but was able to order the part and do it myself. It's very easy to work on.

I also have a SnowJoe two-stage electric snow blower:
https://snowjoe.com/products/snow-jo...ry-and-charger
This one gets the job done, but I'm less happy with it. Our snow tends to be very heavy and it often struggles and is slow going. Also, the SnowJoe batteries just don't seem to be as good as Ego. That said, I use it, don't plan to replace it, and it does get the job done.

I also have an Ego chainsaw. It's excellent for what it is, but not as good as my Tanaka gas saw, Ego weed whacker (excellent, no issues), and SunJoe air compressor (the larger one with tank - works well).

The only small gas engines I have left are the Tanaka saw and backup whole house generator. That last one is the least realistic to replace with a non-gas alternative. I live in the country and have 3-4 day power outages every couple years. The longest outage I've had was 11 days. We need the generator not just for the usual appliances, but also for fresh water - it runs the well pump too.

Generally speaking, I agree with the goals of the CA proposal, and that most of these tools can be replaced with battery electric versions. Some are more arguable than others, but the only one that I actually disagree with is gas generators.

[Hpozzuoli]

Maybe I am a traditionalist, but I don’t see myself investing in electric autos. I am in construction and use all battery equipment. It’s ok, but not without its limitations. I could see electric as an alternative, but not a stipulation. Putting my disdain for cali aside, I think mandating something as costly as going all electric is a horrible decision for many reasons.

Fingers crossed that fault line solves all the problems for us.

[MCCOHENS]

Originally Posted by atreis

I have an EGO 21" mower that's now 7 years old, and still going strong. It's not the self-propelled version though. I was skeptical of the reliability of the self-propelled version. We're on the 2nd pair of batteries and will likely replace them again in another year.

I also have a Ryobi riding lawn mower (very similar to this one: https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/46396016584 ) It uses 4 12V lead acid AGM batteries, and when they're new can go for 1.5-2 hours on a charge, which is enough to do about 3 acres. I mow 4 acres with it, so have to do a quick charge halfway through - takes about an hour - then I mow the other half. As the batteries age, it can take more charges to get it done. Once I got up to needing 4 charges, I replaced the batteries. First set lasted for 3 years, and the current set is 2 years old and still going strong. I've been using it for 5 years now. I had to repair one of the control units for the drive motor (that propels it forward), but was able to order the part and do it myself. It's very easy to work on.

I also have a SnowJoe two-stage electric snow blower:
https://snowjoe.com/products/snow-jo...ry-and-charger
This one gets the job done, but I'm less happy with it. Our snow tends to be very heavy and it often struggles and is slow going. Also, the SnowJoe batteries just don't seem to be as good as Ego. That said, I use it, don't plan to replace it, and it does get the job done.

I also have an Ego chainsaw. It's excellent for what it is, but not as good as my Tanaka gas saw, Ego weed whacker (excellent, no issues), and SunJoe air compressor (the larger one with tank - works well).

The only small gas engines I have left are the Tanaka saw and backup whole house generator. That last one is the least realistic to replace with a non-gas alternative. I live in the country and have 3-4 day power outages every couple years. The longest outage I've had was 11 days. We need the generator not just for the usual appliances, but also for fresh water - it runs the well pump too.

Generally speaking, I agree with the goals of the CA proposal, and that most of these tools can be replaced with battery electric versions. Some are more arguable than others, but the only one that I actually disagree with is gas generators.

EXCELLENT!!! I applaud your actions. I found sharpening the EGO mower blade really helps battery life, and agree about the snow blowing issues. Will convert my old troybilt to propane before going electric on that one. Even with 10 HP it works hard on wet snow. But back to your post thanks for going electric, we need more like you.

[Arizona]

When we were in Santa Rosa ca there was a scramble to buy generators for the power shutoffs and rolling blackouts. I was waiting for the Costco to open and noticed 3 people who were returning 5 gallon gas cans. I talked to one of them who said because of the device on the nozzle you couldn’t pour gas into a generator. Just last month I had to replace the solar panels, controller, and bought new lithium batteries for our Moho. I bought and installed my solar in 2011 when we bought the Moho. My Honda 2000i generator was bought new in 2007 and is still going strong.
We bought 2 new electric bicycles in 2012 and after 2 years the lithium batteries gave up and were $600 each to replace. The extra electric system made the bikes too heavy to ride without the assist so sold the bikes and got a set of basic bikes again.
The solar power will never handle our power requirements but is more of a convenience. I think everyone in California will already have their backup generators when the law goes into effect. It will be funny to see the pollution go off the charts when they turn off the power. Gotta at least keep the fridge going.

[LETMGROW]

In my opinion anyone should clean their own backyard up before making and enforcing rules on someone else. Just the wildfires alone out there create more air pollution than we could ever create running small engines to do yard work, chores or generate a little power. The chainsaws should be put to work in the forests and a new plan for forest management be put into place and be implemented. It's not just one state either. We have pending disasters right here in my state. We have years and years of fallen trees and dead wood lying about our forest floors just waiting to be ignited which would wipe out thousands of acres of valuable timber say nothing about the towns, homes and businesses nearby. This is only because we have too many tree huggers, many of which live many miles away, who come to our state forests and walk a mile or two into the forest and think they are having a wonderful experience. These people are the ones who are making the rules with little knowledge of how a forest should be managed. They don't care as long as they can drive up from the big cities and hug a tree and they have had to step over several rotting trees to find one good enough to hug.
In the past few years there have been tremendous advances made in the reduction of emissions from gasoline powered small engines and as technology advances they will only improve. Now they want to replace them with batteries which have very little if any recycling value and will add to the piles in our landfills. A lot has to be done yet to find a satisfactory plan to dispose of all these batteries. The same thing goes for those ugly solar panels we see covering our landscape and productive farm land. It has been said that after the 20 year lifespan of these panels there is nothing which can be recycled. What are we going to do with them? The same goes for the windmills we see popping up all over the landscape. At some point in time we are going to run out of productive farm land and we will be relying on foreign trade just for our groceries. The countries economically behind us will become far ahead of us. I know for sure there will never be a solar panel on my 200 acres of land and I have had several good offers. I sent those making offers away talking to themselves while I have a couple solar farms going in not far from me. I even had one of those landowners come to me and ask if he could hunt on my property. I'm not going to tell you what I told him. He covered up his hunting grounds. Not my problem.
Looking at the life span of these batteries I believe they are short lived in comparison to the newer gasoline or diesel powered engines. We mow our 4 1/2 acre lawn with a zero turn mower I bought new in 2004 and has over 1200 hours on the meter. Other than an oil and filter change yearly and a chassis lube I have had to replace the spark plugs only once. That was only because I thought it might be time. Yes, the oil I drain from the engine gets properly recycled, the filter gets drained, crushed and goes in with scrap metal which gets recycled.
If I had an issue with the engine on my mower or anything else powered by fossil fuel I am fully capable of repairing it myself. What do I do when an electric motor quits running or the electronics go haywire?
I wonder what a battery powered zero turn mower and a couple extra batteries would cost initially? Then the electricity required to keep them charged so we could mow the lawn when we're ready to.

[Coarsegold]

Have lived in this crazy state for decades and usually most of these type of laws are to keep the greenies happy which is the power base in Sacramento. I have tried to work around most of them but I am getting closer to moving out every year.

I like Nevada because it has no state income tax, and many other reasons that contribute to a healthy, safe and stable standard of living.

When I go to Nevada to visit I always have my out of state shopping list handy. From paint primer to fuel additives. Now I will just add any small gas engine lawn equipment to it.

Generators I hear are not part of the law, which is a good change because obviously our power grid is questionable and anybody who thinks we can live on wind and solar are just kidding themselves. Hydro is out of the question because of constant drought.

Battery production and the disposal of old batteries cause as much or more pollution than petroleum usage.

[Bangorbob]

Originally Posted by Coarsegold

Have lived in this crazy state for decades and usually most of these type of laws are to keep the greenies happy which is the power base in Sacramento. I have tried to work around most of them but I am getting closer to moving out every year.

I like Nevada because it has no state income tax, and many other reasons that contribute to a healthy, safe and stable standard of living.

When I go to Nevada to visit I always have my out of state shopping list handy. From paint primer to fuel additives. Now I will just add any small gas engine lawn equipment to it.

Generators I hear are not part of the law, which is a good change because obviously our power grid is questionable and anybody who thinks we can live on wind and solar are just kidding themselves. Hydro is out of the question because of constant drought.

Battery production and the disposal of old batteries cause as much or more pollution than petroleum usage.

I like the idea of a mix of battery/electric and gas powered stuff. I lived in CA for 30 yrs and couldn't wait to leave. I now live in Nevada. Don't wait to long to move cus you'll be moving to a place that is following CA's lead.Good luck to all as changes are ahead.

[SlowJoe]

There is a lot of discussion about abilities of electric versus the gasoline counterpart in this thread. There are pros and cons for each. The point is that there is not necessarily a correct answer for everyone. Everyone's needs/ desires and budget is different. Used to, we allowed people to make their own choices. Now it seems that often times government and individuals like to nudge/ persuade/ influence/ or actually mandate what choices we make.



I am firmly against government interference's such as these. We should not be using subsidies or mandates to intervene in the free market. People should be left to have the freedom to make their own decisions.



I find it very ironic that a group of individuals who share a common interest related to RV's would not feel the same way. What if government started mandating limits on the use/ sale/ types of units available? It's easy to make an argument that RV's are inefficient/ unnecessary/ wasteful/ luxury items. Why not ban them? After all, we are trying to save the world, right?


Often times, people seem to be ok with mandates that limit the "other guys" behavior. Especially if it's something you happen to agree with. However, people need to keep in mind its not so fun if the mandates affect you or your lively hood.



Lots of talk on here about adding solar arrays with batteries and charging stations to lawn care businesses. Really? These people are trying to make a living and people think passing along a problem like this is ok? What about the huge subsidy which is a weak hearted attempt to mitigate the huge costs this industry must absorb to make these changes. Most landscape businesses will not be able to source and connect the components to wire up such a system. Who is to say such a system could even keep up with their daily needs- especially when full sun is not available due to clouds/ shade etc?





If you like electric stuff, go buy it. Most people would support your right to do so. But keep in mind that other people should also have the freedom to make their own decisions even though they might not suit your line of thinking.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by SlowJoe

There is a lot of discussion about abilities of electric versus the gasoline counterpart in this thread. There are pros and cons for each. The point is that there is not necessarily a correct answer for everyone. Everyone's needs/ desires and budget is different. Used to, we allowed people to make their own choices. Now it seems that often times government and individuals like to nudge/ persuade/ influence/ or actually mandate what choices we make.



I am firmly against government interference's such as these. We should not be using subsidies or mandates to intervene in the free market. People should be left to have the freedom to make their own decisions.



I find it very ironic that a group of individuals who share a common interest related to RV's would not feel the same way. What if government started mandating limits on the use/ sale/ types of units available? It's easy to make an argument that RV's are inefficient/ unnecessary/ wasteful/ luxury items. Why not ban them? After all, we are trying to save the world, right?


Often times, people seem to be ok with mandates that limit the "other guys" behavior. Especially if it's something you happen to agree with. However, people need to keep in mind its not so fun if the mandates affect you or your lively hood.



Lots of talk on here about adding solar arrays with batteries and charging stations to lawn care businesses. Really? These people are trying to make a living and people think passing along a problem like this is ok? What about the huge subsidy which is a weak hearted attempt to mitigate the huge costs this industry must absorb to make these changes. Most landscape businesses will not be able to source and connect the components to wire up such a system. Who is to say such a system could even keep up with their daily needs- especially when full sun is not available due to clouds/ shade etc?





If you like electric stuff, go buy it. Most people would support your right to do so. But keep in mind that other people should also have the freedom to make their own decisions even though they might not suit your line of thinking.

Right on! We all need to make our own choices, but keep the well-being of others in mind as well.

[Old-Biscuit]

Article in Wall Street Journal yesterday

"California Scrambles to Find Electricity to Offset Plant Closures"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/califor...es-11634376600

[Dennis123]

Believe it when you see it. Great State ?????

[Homeby5]

We can argue all day long about preferring electric or ICE's but what is left out of the discussion is the very important point of freedom of personal choice. I may be old fashioned nut I believe my likes or dislikes should never be forced upon others.

[tetranz]

Originally Posted by Homeby5

We can argue all day long about preferring electric or ICE's but what is left out of the discussion is the very important point of freedom of personal choice. I may be old fashioned nut I believe my likes or dislikes should never be forced upon others.

That's fine if your actions don't affect anyone else but in many situations, it's not that simple.

Emissions drift across property lines. Same with noise, bright lights and other things.

Imagine if I live next door to you in a close suburban situation. Is it okay for me to use my noisy leaf blower at 3 am just outside your bedroom window?

Would you object to that or, as an old fashioned nut, would you be happy that your neighbor is exercising his freedom of personal choice while you exercise your freedom of personal choice attempting to sleep at that time?

I like to trim my weeds at that time, you like to sleep. Would you try to force your likes or dislikes onto me?