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01-22-2021, 07:55 PM
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#99
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Solo Rvers Club Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,773
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And some people let their dogs yap away at night while we’re enjoying the quiet sounds of a crackling fire. Or drive around and around in a whining golf cart hauling their wife and dog. There’s alway something to complain about if you try. As far as lights go, I’m not a big fan of those either but if someone tried to tell me how to enjoy my time off, well I might assist them with seeing a few stars.
Guess some day I’ll be retired and have time to yell at people for stepping on my imaginary lawn. For now, live and let live.
__________________
2009 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ
2011 JK
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01-23-2021, 05:50 AM
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#100
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 367
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Is it time for Jack Horkheimer?
Greetings, greetings, Star Hustlers!
__________________
2016 Open Range RF316RLS
2018 Ram 3500 Cummins
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01-23-2021, 12:23 PM
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#101
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Bushnell, FL
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVPioneer
Perhaps you’ve misunderstood my words. I asked a question about a statement that said no one’s rights trumped anyone else’s rights, which was followed up with a suggestion that someone who wants to enjoy viewing the night sky in a relatively dark area should go wilderness camping.
I see no connection between quiet time and lights on or off, unless the lights are emitting noises.
If the written word does not expressly permit or forbid someone from emitting light that impacts another person, who has what rights? There’s no personal projection here of what’s right or wrong. If one person believes they have the right to have a camper lit up like a Las Vegas Casino and another person believes they have a right to go to a campground to escape city lights for some nighttime star gazing, how do we satisfy both goals without violating someone’s rights?
Simple contract law?
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Yes, simple contract law. Light pollution ordinances are not criminal offenses... they are civil where it is a neighbor filing a civil lawsuit against a neighbor. Civil Court is where contract disputes are resolved... "Simple contract law", hope that connects the dots for you. I permanently reside in a State that does not like window tint on automobiles. Loop hole to window tint ordinances is the Interstate Commerce Clause and Equal Protect Clause, vehicles imported from out of state (FL for example) with factory installed tint from the manufacture are exempt. Same standard would apply to manufacturer installed lighting on a camper, especially if it is DOT approved lighting. The kicker being the absence of local or county code, RV park rule stating when auxiliary lighting can not be used gives no standing to file a civil complaint. Most communities have not adopted light curfews because of the statistical correlation of reduction of crime in lighted areas.
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01-23-2021, 06:24 PM
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#102
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Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 41
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I’m saying if you want complete privacy you can go find that , but you want to be around people you have no right to demand everyone else live under your rules. Get a grip. If I want complete privacy I go where I can have it. You should do the same. Who died and made you a ruler. In a park your not going to find what your looking for. You sound like a bitter ol person who expects everyone to fall in line. Are you a HOA president. If not your missed your calling
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01-23-2021, 07:14 PM
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#103
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 3,026
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This is why I avoid campgrounds/RV resorts that resemble Disneyland.
Nice locations, nice people.
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01-23-2021, 10:07 PM
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#104
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest and Arizona
Posts: 2,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ RV'r
I have RV'ed all of the lower 48 and have hundreds of nights at what feels like hundreds of campgrounds and I have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER seen not ONE person "looking at stars"
I'm asking regular people ....... have any of you seen these mystery "stargazers"?
I think there are a LOT of "pants on fire" statements.
Just tell the truth.... you don't like all the lights on and below the RV's, but quit with all the FAKE stargazing.
Those boondockers out in the wilderness could totally be into star gazing but in a campground.... unless its remote and way out there..... nope don't believe it, and like Bigfoot, have never seen it.
You want to see the best stars... close your eyes, then rub them really hard for 20 seconds and then you will see some great stars.
Listen, I like stars just like the next guy, but you are not amateur astronomers studying your hobby in the middle of a concrete campground full of RV's.
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Can't find my Bigfoot pictures but I do have some pictures of my telescopes in campgrounds. Yeah, I know, probably just a guy in a telescope costume.
I've always described the hobby as one the public sees very few examples of.
We are usually individuals who are out in the dark, quietly stargazing after everyone has gone to bed. It's not an obvious hobby, nor is it common.
I've been Camping full time for 7 months now and have only seen two other telescopes. If the Moon isn't around and I'm going to be in a spot for more than a week, I'll set-up my big scope and leave the mount up, but covered, only attaching the telescope when I'm ready to observe. Other times I'll set-up my small one after dark, and take it down when I'm finished. I brought the small one so I can throw it in the car and find a spot away from campground lights.
I DO observing in lit campgrounds. There are things to see in spite of the lights, the Moon being one. I'm working on my "Lunar 100" list which is a list of 100 specific features on the Moon. Others are called Double or Multiple Stars, where two or more stars are orbiting each other. Then there are the bright planets, like Mercury Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. We try to schedule our boondocking or more remote camping around New Moon where I can go for the stuff that is best viewed, or even located in dark skies.
Oh, and even better than closing your eyes and rubbing them to see stars? Banging your head on the TV when entering or exiting the RV works really well too.
Yes, like Bigfoot we are rarely seen. The one photo showing the two main scopes was taken the night of the Jupiter Saturn Grand conjunction in December. The campground was in downtown Quartzsite.
FYI, I've been faking it for over 50 years, but shhhhh, don't tell anyone, and for gosh sakes, please don't send my photos to the tabloids. They just LOVE Bigfoot, and Amateur Astronomer sightings. Next thing you'll know, the Discovery Channel will have a new show: "Hunting Amateur Astronomers - The search for the legendary Stargazer." Oh, and I'll answer one of the most common questioned ask of me as an Amateur Astronomer - No, I've never seen a UFO and don't believe in them. Answer to the second most common question? Yes, I do believe there is other life in the universe. It's just not visiting Earth in space ships.
People have lights on for all kinds of reason. Light is comforting. As a young kid interested in the hobby, I've grown up to be comfortable in darkness and even when I go for a walk around the campground at night, almost never carry or use a flashlight. Walking around using only starlight or Moonlight is a way I enjoy my walk. It's almost more peaceful without light. To me experiencing night without lights is like experiencing nature without the sounds of civilization. It's wonderful.
Now, I'll sign off with one of our Amateur astronomer secret club sayings: "Clear Skies!"
__________________
Tom and Pris M. along with Buddy the 18 year old Siamese cat
1998 Safari Serengeti 3706, 300HP Cat 3126 Allison 3060, 900 watts of Solar.
Dragging four telescopes around the US in search of dark skies.
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01-23-2021, 10:15 PM
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#105
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Enjoying the Western States!
Posts: 19,767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astrnmrtom
I've always described the hobby as one the public sees very few examples of.
We are usually individuals who are out in the dark, quietly stargazing after everyone has gone to bed. It's not an obvious hobby, nor is it common.
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Love your explanation of beauty in the dark!
__________________
Full-timed for 16 Years . . .
Traveled 8 yr in a 2004 Newmar Dutch Star 40' Diesel
& 8 yr in a 33' Travel Supreme 5th wheel
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01-23-2021, 10:43 PM
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#106
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: MN
Posts: 2,810
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Reading this thread makes it very clear why it wouldn't be safe to politely request that a neighbor tone down his lights.
__________________
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1993 Rockwood 28' Class C - Ford E-350 7.5L
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01-23-2021, 11:08 PM
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#107
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,878
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Security is often offered as validation for all-night lighting, yet I so seldom read of theft or vandalism I cannot recall the last time a thread concerning actual theft or vandalism in an RV park was on any of the RVing forums.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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01-24-2021, 05:17 AM
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#108
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 573
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This will probably bother some of you after reading all your issues with porch lights but It seems to me that you should not have a expectation to be able to camp 20' from the next RV and have complete darkness, or not hear music, or laughing , or conversation, or a dog or a diesel when they come in or leave or a hatch open and close.
I'm not saying some people don't go to far with the lights but if we are talking porch lights in a RV park driving you crazy? I guess it just does not make the list of things I worry about.
I think if you need/want complete darkness you should expect to camp or travel to a remote place to enjoy that. Not where you have a neighbor every 30' or so.
__________________
2015 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Cummins 8.9 ISL 450
Freightliner XCL W/IFS
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01-24-2021, 06:38 AM
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#109
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel-Lover
Lets all work to bring back neighborly care and decency.
Remember those days when people stopped to help change a tire, hitchhiking was safe and such, is it possible to go back to those kinder, gentler days... are we capable?
What say you?
*snip*
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I picked up a hitchhiker in the rain a few month back. He was soaked and I provided a blanket. He said no one would pick him up even before it started raining. He stated "I guess they thought I was a mass murderer". I simply replied "What the chances of their being two of us in this truck!". He slowly looked over at me, very unsure.
I thought everyone knew that old joke.
__________________
2020 Ram 3500 Tradesman HO Diesel Aisen CC LWB Dually
2008 Cherokee WolfPack 295WP
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01-24-2021, 07:08 AM
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#110
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Ohio
Posts: 538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asuperheat
I think if you need/want complete darkness you should expect to camp or travel to a remote place to enjoy that. Not where you have a neighbor every 30' or so.
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There's a difference between wanting complete darkness and just wanting people to turn off their outside lights when they go in for the night. It doesn't have to be a "one extreme or the other with no middle ground" kind of thing.
__________________
RV: 2021 Thor Four Winds 26B on Chevy 4500
Toad: 2019 Ford Fiesta Hatchback
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01-24-2021, 07:12 AM
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#111
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Harold
I’m saying if you want complete privacy you can go find that , but you want to be around people you have no right to demand everyone else live under your rules. Get a grip. If I want complete privacy I go where I can have it. You should do the same. Who died and made you a ruler. In a park your not going to find what your looking for. You sound like a bitter ol person who expects everyone to fall in line. Are you a HOA president. If not your missed your calling
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__________________
Randy and Michele
2017 Pace Arrow 38K, 2017 Jeep Wrangler
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01-24-2021, 07:19 AM
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#112
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby F
Reading this thread makes it very clear why it wouldn't be safe (?) to politely request that a neighbor tone down his lights.
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If you think a polite request would be UNSAFE, perhaps you should be camping in the local police parking lot. Out of line comments like this is what has gotten us to where we are now.
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