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**NLOVNIT** · 12-07-2010, 04:39 PM

Tagging on to Wayne's fax story, every now & then we'd get faxed solicitations to our home machine. Usually for some free vacation somewhere. I hated those as they did use up paper & ink. One time, I got one with a toll-free return fax number. I stuck the solicitation back in the fax & taped it in a loop with with pages that read STOP FAXING TO THIS NUMBER (listed our our number), dialed their fax number & pressed SEND. I figured I could use up their paper & ink just as easily as they did mine. The looped pages kept faxing for nearly an hour before the transmission was ended by the recipient fax. We haven't gotten any more faxed solicitations from that number again.

Sometimes you have to beat them at their own game.

diandtom: This has been a very good thread, glad you posted. Quite informational & a heads up for anyone contemplating an auto-renewal service, of any kind.

Lori-

diandtom · 12-07-2010, 04:53 PM

Lori, I have also enjoyed this thread. If I get high pressure from anyone to buy I will always back out. I not heard anymore from them and if they leave me alone so will I leave them alone.

Rich and Cork · 12-07-2010, 05:39 PM

Gosh, I think the company and the service are great. I have 3 XMs and one SIRIUS (came with the car). I started with XM shortly after they launched their business. These are pretty much the only radio we use.

arrowhead · 12-07-2010, 05:58 PM

I have had XM for years and last month called numerous times to cancel and after about 3 hours on hold managed to get it done but it seems they have seen the writing in the wall as I getat least 30 times the number of stations on my smartphone for free so I'm thinking they are starting to squirm a little

Dale

baraff · 12-07-2010, 06:18 PM

Its truly a shame about XM and Sirius. Such promise this concept held. Coast to Coast radio, it was great. They've really ruined it.
I liked the concept so much I bought stock when XM went public, at around $12 a share. Sold at $13 when they started getting sued by the music labels for royalty infringement. (You can't beat the RIAA)
Since then its been a downward spiral. I quit subscribing when Sirius reneged on the deal they made to offer users more choice with the merger. They killed my favorite station (XM Cafe) and the one that replaced it is not nearly as good.
I went through the same hassle with billing as the OP. Finally got a call from the collection agency over a $35 charge, decided it wasn't worth ruining my good credit and paid it.
I will NEVER do business with a company that does "automatic renewals" again. I just won't. They are counting on you to not remember and I just think its a sleazy business practice. Not for me.

RickO · 12-07-2010, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baraff

I will NEVER do business with a company that does "automatic renewals" again. I just won't. They are counting on you to not remember and I just think its a sleazy business practice. Not for me.

I actually like the convienence of automatic renewals on many things. I wouldn't do business with a company that required it but like the fact that many offer it.

rick

frankdamp · 12-07-2010, 08:11 PM

We rarely listen to radio, since we both have an antipathy to meaningless drivel, even on those stations that feature the kind of music we like. I think the last time I turned on the car radio was to check traffic conditions on a trip through Seattle about 3 years ago.

I've only turned on the radio in the RV to get local weather reports. Would I pay $25 a month or more for umpteen additional channels? No way!

As far as I'm concerned XM and Sirius can go whistle. If I buy another new car, satellite radio will have to be removed at no cost to me before I'll even consider buying the car.

CorsairIIAT · 12-07-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankdamp

We rarely listen to radio, since we both have an antipathy to meaningless drivel, even on those stations that feature the kind of music we like. I think the last time I turned on the car radio was to check traffic conditions on a trip through Seattle about 3 years ago.

I've only turned on the radio in the RV to get local weather reports. Would I pay $25 a month or more for umpteen additional channels? No way!

As far as I'm concerned XM and Sirius can go whistle. If I buy another new car, satellite radio will have to be removed at no cost to me before I'll even consider buying the car.

This is the way I look at it also. I use off the air radio and CD's where I have no coverage. I will not pay for radio. And i don't miss someone like Sterns.

Possum · 12-08-2010, 12:39 AM

My neighbour bought an XM radio at a garage sale a few years ago an asked for the trial period service to decide whether he wanted it or not. He's still on that trial period. I borrowed his unit while on an RV trip up north and have decided i really don't want a sat radio for any reason. I listened to announcer after announcer tell me how great XM was and that they carried no commercials. I think someone should mail them a definition of 'commercial.'

Ken-55 · 12-08-2010, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wthomas1

My fax machine started spitting out a piece of paper about 1 per hour sometime last year. The paper in effect says "someone called but didn't send a fax". I finally unplugged the fax and waited for the call to come in. I asked the person why they continue to call my fax number and she asked if I was William. I told her no and she asked how long I have had this number and I told her 20 plus years. I finally asked who she was and she gave me her name and I asked what company she represented. She gave me the name of a collection agency. She told me it would take 48 hours to remove my number from their system.

Recently the calls started up again so I unplugged the fax and waited for the call. When I found it was the same company still looking for William, I asked the lady if the people who worked there were stupid or merely incompetent she had no answer but assured me the calls would stop in 48 hours. When I asked her where I could send a bill for all of the ink and paper of mine that they had used, she hung up on me.

If you have unlimited long distance or they have an "800" number, write a little note asking them to remove your number from their system and FAX it to their "voice" number . . . after you FAX machine redials their voice line 20 or 30 times they should be more receptive to helping you out!

chasfm11 · 12-08-2010, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickO

I actually like the convienence of automatic renewals on many things. I wouldn't do business with a company that required it but like the fact that many offer it.

rick

I made the mistake of violating my own rules and allowing our newspaper to autorenew and to charge our credit card. I monitor the credit card very closely and saw three charges from them on the same month. I called the to find out why and they told me it was past billing because my credit card had expired (it hadn't and all of the previous months had been charged properly.) A long story short, it took 3 more months of back and forth to get the mess straightened out (I had immediately disputed the erroneous charges with the credit card company) and they lost me as a subscriber in the process.

To the OP, I take a very aggressive stance on all disputes. You've now seen the effects of ignoring such situations. It takes me only a few minutes to dash off a letter confirming my intent to cancel and only a few dollars to take it to the Post Office and send it certified. Then, if a collection agency calls at some later point, I simply provide them a copy of the cancellation letter and of the certified mail receipt. End of story.

I simply refuse to risk the aggravation that you've been put through. You probably don't have a leg to stand on regarding their harassing you via phone while they believe that you are a continuing subscriber, especially if they believe that you owe them money, whether their calculation of those charges was honest or even reasonable. My aggressive stance on such matters includes making them correct their computer system to reflect the correct situation. I was forced to deal with the trash company that our Town hired on a recent project. They had their billing all screwed up. Even my registered letter didn't help because they are, for all intents and purposes, a utility and a monopoly. I sent them another registered letter, telling them that I was going to appear in person at their offices and require one of their senior managers to go through my billing line by line and prove what their computer was spitting out. I never heard another word.

melvonnar · 12-08-2010, 08:47 AM

If you have some extra cash you don't no what to do with, and a lot of free time; sue the suckers.

Arctic Owl · 12-08-2010, 08:51 AM

Well XM is owned by Sirus, so were are you going to go if you want that type of radio?

Wayne M · 12-08-2010, 09:27 AM

I'm not sure if the rules have changed, but here is a quote:

"In the United States, new Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules take effect Aug. 25 (year not published) that will impact sending unsolicited advertisements by fax to anyone (individuals or business) without their prior written permission. This consent must only be obtained once before targeting each individual with marketing messages. The FCC also reversed its prior opinion that an "existing business relationship" may not be sufficient to satisfy the implied permission test."

I believe the "Do Not Call" for voice solicitations also apply in the "exisiting business relationship." You notify them, they have to comply. Make a recording. It is not illegal to stick a suction cup on a receiver and make a recording. Using that recording in court is antoher matter, but lawyers can use the information on the recording to ask questions.