Crooks or Normal RV Dealer?

[tedward1555]

Originally Posted by Noelj

I am proud to sy that I have had excellent dealings with the dealer who has sold me two used Class A. Fair honest dealings with the purchase, went to extremes to make sure everything was in good condition when we got it. free service and replacement on anything for the first month, and excellent service and repair work later, at a fair price. Alas, they only service what they sell, so I can't send folks there for help. However, if one has a problem in the local area, I could probably talk them into working in a new customer.

Noel that is a great looking rig. Who makes "Hurricane"? great pics on your picassa web page

[RocketDork]

Originally Posted by tedward1555

The reason I posted this was to get honest feedback on whether or not it was ... for example reasonable to pay normal shop rate for "diagnostic time" when something is under warranty, or is it normal for an RV dealer to charge me $64 to put on $1.40 worth of rubber bumpers on 4 bolts.

I think you believe, and maybe the way I titled it and wrote it, you're justified, that I came here just to rant and blast a dealer... only partly true,

Ok, so now we have something to work with. You have reached a place where you are "teachable" and the anger is gone, or gone enough.

First, lets address the question about the $1.40 of rubber bumpers...The answer is; Maybe. If the vibration was the only thing that you requested a repair on, then yes, $64 is a reasonable charge. $6 for the bolts, and $50 for 1/2 hour of shop time, plus taxes...

Diagnostic time on a warranty repair...that's a tough one. It depends on the warranty that you have. Fleetwood won't provide warranty on the coach you have (bankruptcy), but there may be other items covered under a MFG warranty. The warranty you have may also be a "aftermarket" warranty. Those differ in what they pay for. You must also be very careful to follow all the processes they have to make sure they approve and pay for the repair. Some MFG warranties have a deductible or they don't cover the diagnostic fee...I'm not sure about Cummins/Onan.

I don't know that the dealership was being unreasonable or not. You don't seem inclined to share all the finer details of the interaction, so its hard to make a judgment call on whether or not they overcharged you for their services.

My best advise would be to follow a process that I'm sure you'd like your decorative lamp customers to follow. Start with documenting what's wrong with the repair, where you think the costs are too high, and quality of service too low. Contact the Service manager at the company and give him a chance to make it right. Be clear in what you expect of them as a company. Don't ask for things you don't deserve. You deserve a detailed explanation of the charges and repairs performed.

When you get done with the process, come back to this thread and let us know what happened. If they didn't or won't make things right, we want to know, likewise we want to know if things worked out.

And finally, yeah, I do believe that you came to rant about the dealer. You were/are angry and felt like you had been taken advantage of. I was trying to get you to realize that you shared some of the blame...nothing more.

[tedward1555]

Originally Posted by RocketDork

Ok, so now we have something to work with. You have reached a place where you are "teachable" and the anger is gone, or gone enough.

First, lets address the question about the $1.40 of rubber bumpers...The answer is; Maybe. If the vibration was the only thing that you requested a repair on, then yes, $64 is a reasonable charge. $6 for the bolts, and $50 for 1/2 hour of shop time, plus taxes...

Diagnostic time on a warranty repair...that's a tough one. It depends on the warranty that you have. Fleetwood won't provide warranty on the coach you have (bankruptcy), but there may be other items covered under a MFG warranty. The warranty you have may also be a "aftermarket" warranty. Those differ in what they pay for. You must also be very careful to follow all the processes they have to make sure they approve and pay for the repair. Some MFG warranties have a deductible or they don't cover the diagnostic fee...I'm not sure about Cummins/Onan.

I don't know that the dealership was being unreasonable or not. You don't seem inclined to share all the finer details of the interaction, so its hard to make a judgment call on whether or not they overcharged you for their services.

My best advise would be to follow a process that I'm sure you'd like your decorative lamp customers to follow. Start with documenting what's wrong with the repair, where you think the costs are too high, and quality of service too low. Contact the Service manager at the company and give him a chance to make it right. Be clear in what you expect of them as a company. Don't ask for things you don't deserve. You deserve a detailed explanation of the charges and repairs performed.

When you get done with the process, come back to this thread and let us know what happened. If they didn't or won't make things right, we want to know, likewise we want to know if things worked out.

And finally, yeah, I do believe that you came to rant about the dealer. You were/are angry and felt like you had been taken advantage of. I was trying to get you to realize that you shared some of the blame...nothing more.

Rocket:
Surely this is not the first time in your life you will have heard this. Your approach is down right rude. And, if you consider yourself a teacher at all, I doubt that you are a very effective one. I read the first paragraph of your post, and NOTHING else. The anger is back... and I have nothing else to say to you. So Long and happy trails

[RoadRohrers]

1. Figured it was Ancira based on info and location.

2. One of the reasons I liked IRV2 is because people are generally courteous to one another. If this were the first post I ever saw, I'd probably blow it off. With the general lack of civility in the world today, I am sorry to see this thread devolve to this level.

[RocketDork]

Originally Posted by RoadRohrers

I am sorry to see this thread devolve to this level.

Devolved to this level? Really? It started at this level with an accusation of a dealership being called crooks. I simply tried to point out that they might not be crooks.

As far as I can tell the OP hasn't even contacted the dealer about the errors...

I guess I could have followed the crowd and complained about those evil dealerships and how they all steal our money, but I don't really think that's the case.

Over this thread. OP will always be a victim.

[tedward1555]

Originally Posted by RoadRohrers

1. Figured it was Ancira based on info and location.

2. One of the reasons I liked IRV2 is because people are generally courteous to one another. If this were the first post I ever saw, I'd probably blow it off. With the general lack of civility in the world today, I am sorry to see this thread devolve to this level.

You're right Richard and I apologize to everyone for my bad behavior in this thread. Unfortunately I can't just delete the whole damned thing.

[sknight]

RD is taking it to a very RV.net kind of place isn't he?

While he probably should have checked every little thing on the work order, he shouldn't have to. He expected to receive service for payment.

Let's skip warranty for a moment, that's a seperate issue.

$64 is about right for the bumpers. A tick high maybe, but .5 hour labor is $35-50 depending on their labor rate. It takes time to find, correct and confirm repair on rattles, they aggrivate techs as much as owners. I know, I was one for 17 years.

The drawer slide should be zero charge. Open door, look, order parts. A no brainer.

The generator issue, couldn't figure out how to start it aside, should have been no charge if they don't work on them. That's two+ hours labor for no repair. He should have been told right off that he needed to take it elsewhere.

The toilet issue is again, shouldn't have to be tested. He expected a repair, not an invitation to sit in the parking lot for thirty minutes fiddling with this or that.

I got burned on a couple of warranty issues with mine, to the point that I marched the GM out into the parking lot, showed it to him, showed him the work orders and asked for his comments. As a mechanic myself I also knew how to back him into a corner.

Now I'm corporate management and I fully understand that just enough time to pick something up is just that, just enough time. In this economy management time is at a premium and while I make my own schedule I also have precious little time to handle things.

He left the business in question nameless to start with, he just asked how common this is. Unfortunately, in any repair business, it's a little too common. He didn't have time to go over everything on site, surely not enough to go inside and get managemant involved, checked it out when he got home and started asking questions. Here and with the dealer. No shame on him.

[tedward1555]

Originally Posted by RocketDork

Devolved to this level? Really? It started at this level with an accusation of a dealership being called crooks. I simply tried to point out that they might not be crooks.

As far as I can tell the OP hasn't even contacted the dealer about the errors...

I guess I could have followed the crowd and complained about those evil dealerships and how they all steal our money, but I don't really think that's the case.

Over this thread. OP will always be a victim.

Rocket I have contacted the manager and faxed him a letter, I'm waiting to hear back from him. I do however, believe that in the end they will either agree with me because I AM RIGHT! or they will not.

The reasons I know I'm right are:
1) they charged me $25 to "snake a line" on a "Powerflush" toilet that did not flush the very first time I tried it... and I knew going in there that a simple line flush was not the problem with the toilet... it's something to do with the air valve or the electronics or something... I'm an idiot about such things and I knew that. They are the "factory trained" dealer. There is nothing they can say or do to lead me to believe they were justified in charging a penney and then not fully testing it. I don't believe for a minute that they flushed it 100 or even 10 times after their "fix" to make sure it was right. They just assumed it was a line clog and left it at that.
2) They had ALL of my warranty stuff before I left the vehicle with them... Fleetwood, Onan, and Good Sam... I discussed this with Texas Fleet Services yesterday where I left it to be fixed... and they said they would never charge me $128 for "diagnostics" and then tell me that they could not figure out what was wrong with a generator that is still under 2 strong warranties... as an Onan "designated repair center" they should have gone all the way to even replacing the generator. Instead they charged me $128 and actually stated on the invoice "repair denied".... what does that mean? Does that mean that Onan refuses to help me? Or does it mean that Ancira does not know how to fix it and they just will shove it back to the customer to deal with? As a designated service center... that one baffles me and you somehow believe that I "knew" they couldn't fix it and am bashing them for it.
3) The slide out kitchen: $64 dollars to do what? I showed them it was off the track when I took it in. They call me and tell me I can pick up the vehicle... but they still have not heard back how much new tracks will cost...OK, I'll accept that they haven't heard back... but what on earth could they have done to justify that much shop time... I made the diagnosis for them.
You seem to think that the dealer is totally justified in this and it is my responsibility to "keep them in check", and I have unfairly attacked them.
I think that I am totally justified in attacking them because they are supposed to be the experts, the Onan issue alone is enough for me to say they don't deserve a chance to defend themselves.. there is NO defense for it. They simply didn't want to be bothered with it, or they dropped the ball, or something and they just shoved it on to me.
We do all have responsibility to see that we get what we pay for, yes... but I can't help but believe that there are systemic problems with Ancira service department to charge a customer and send him on his way with this kind of a result.
Further, I don't really believe that I owe them anything and if I want to come into a forum of friends and rant about it... I think that is OK too...

[Route 66]

Folks, lets drop the personal comments as they are uncalled for and against the rules.

[tedward1555]

First I incorrectly named the company I left it with yesterday. They are "Fleet Maintenance of Texas".
I left it with them yesterday around 1pm. A few minutes ago I got a call from a Mr. Brian Williams (generator service writer). Brian reported that they have diagnosed the problem and it is the ec30 controller.
Brian contacted Onan and they say it is not covered in my remaining warranty.
Brian then contacted Good Sam and they said yes it was covered but they will not pay for a new one $1800, but they will pay for a rebuilt one (by Onan)... They will also pay $50 shipping to get it here. Brian got on the internet and found a rebuilt one in Dallas and shipping is $38 so we are covered. They expect it to be here tomorrow and I can have my rig by Friday afternoon.
Ladies and Gentlemen.... THAT IS HOW YOU DO BUSINESS.
That is what I am accustomed to and that is what I expected.
Now keep in mind I do not have my bus back yet but at this point I highly recommend Fleet Maintenance of Texas for the way they work.... and I'll just bet you on Friday my generator will work.

[steelheadbluesman]

It's obvious to all of us, that there are good and bad dealers and repair people out there. I've been ripped off before, and I've been treated very fairly by others, haven't we all. Paying shop time for no work/no results is pretty blatant, unless they honestly spent the time, working real hard, but were still unable to get it done right... If it seems they put forth a fair and reasonable effort, then they deserve the payment, or at least some of it, because no one works for free, unless you have a good contract to force them to eat it.... But if they just jerk you around, do nothing and the charges appear rediculously inappropriate? Well then, they probably are, and you should put on your gloves! You fight with the bad guys and try to work with the best. All too often, we RVers are perceived as having problems while traveling, or just too wimpy to understand and fix our own complicated machinery, and are therefore vulnerable; we are often ripe for the fleecing, because the unscrupulous suppliers/dealers/mechanics know all this and can take the advantage. I am not implying that they are all this way, but many are prone to over-charging. It's part of the RV lifestyle. But IMHO, we should never go back to the bad guys and should do all we can to locate and deal with the best. AND, perhaps most important, we should raise hell with the bad guys, making our opinions count. As a successful businessman, tedward1555, I'm sure you know all about this. Is this "normal" treatment in the RV world? Hmmm... Yes and No. I work with one really good repair facility where I have taken the time to get to know them, but do most of it myself (Yes, I've had to learn.) My final 2 cents in this thread. Best of luck to you all.

[golden]

Tedward 1355 - I'm not sure how close you are to Georgetown (I suspect you are in the Austin/San Antonio area), but I recommend Crestview on I-35 for repairs in the future. Not the one in Buda, but the one in Georgetown.

[tedward1555]

Originally Posted by golden

Tedward 1355 - I'm not sure how close you are to Georgetown (I suspect you are in the Austin/San Antonio area), but I recommend Crestview on I-35 for repairs in the future. Not the one in Buda, but the one in Georgetown.

Thanks I'll check them out. I have been to the one in Buda when I was shopping but didn't think about them for service as they didn't seem to be too involved with Fleetwood...

[tedward1555]

The service manager called after reviewing my complaint and although I'm not 100% satisfied, I'm satisfied enough to move on with my life
1) The Onan issue $128... His words "you never should have been charged that"... he's sending a check for full refund
2) The toilet issue $25... "bring it back and we'll fix it free of charge"
3) The rubber bumpers $64... included in that is a new key for the southco cam lock on the hood... didn't know that, wasn't told that and it doesn't appear on the invoice... So I'll accept the charge and wait on my key in the mail.
4) The outdoor kitchen slide issue: $64... They didn't hear back from Fleetwood about how much the slides will cost ($74 each x 2), until I had already picked up the coach. If I want they'll order the parts and fix it when they come in for parts and labor. They still have to charge me the $64... and he really couldn't give me a good reason why... I really believe it's born of his frustration of dealing with Fleetwood post bankruptcy...

As I stated earlier, I won't go back there but in the end it is big of them to admit a mistake re the Onan and give me a refund.