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Old 08-09-2019, 01:22 PM   #43
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Not sure I entirely agree

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer View Post
The tow bar is considered "personal property" and not part of the RV, so no different than any other piece of gear you brought along and got damaged in an accident. However, in this case it caused the accident rather than being a victim of it. If your lawn chair breaks while on a camping trip, the RV insurance doesn't replace it, right? But if the lawn chair was in the RV and got crushed during an RV accident, then it could be covered under the personal property clause of your policy.

If you were towing a trailer and the trailer hit something or somebody else and caused damage, your RV liability coverage would handle it. Damage to others, not to yourself or your own property. Any damage to the trailer is not covered at all unless the trailer had its own collision coverage. Your towed car is treated pretty much the same, except that it has its own liability policy for any damage it causes. That's the primary insurance for whatever damage the car causes. However, you can't sue yourself for damages, meaning you cannot be held liable for damages you do to yourself. Ergo, your liability insurance doesn't kick in to cover any damage it did to your own motorhome.

The bottom line is that both vehicles get fixed under their own respective policy, whether it is collision or comprehensive (they both have deductibles). You are on the hook for both deductibles.
Many carriers will add the tow bar to the toad's auto policy if it is permanently attached and a premium paid for the special equipment. That does not change the outcome or the double deductible requirement.

There is no Liability coverage on a trailer. The Liabilty is provided by the towing motor vehicle.

The example of the collapsed RV chair is not germane as it is not a covered peril on most policies and Personal Property is normally subject to a deductible per loss as well.

This thread is indicative of the general misunderstanding the public has of their policies. I spend more time explaining coverages than anything else. They are difficult to understand.

Most of the exclusions in policies are common sense, put there because of abuse, or clarification. Auto policy Comprehensive (Comp) is one of the broadest coverages in the property insurance world, therefore there must be restrictions.

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Old 08-09-2019, 01:27 PM   #44
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Noticed that the OP hasn't returned with the outcome. Hope he does.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:15 PM   #45
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The outcome has already been determined

Originally Posted by twogypsies View Post
Noticed that the OP hasn't returned with the outcome. Hope he does.
An insurance company, regardless of which one, has correctly settled the claim. When your vehicle collides with something other than a bird, animal, falling or flying object, it is a Collision loss. Any other covered damage will be under Comprehensive. Most of those Farmers humourous claim scenarios are Comp losses. None is unique to Farmers...just a play on consumers not understanding coverages.

In this case one vehicle collided with another, if either did not have Collision coverage that vehicle would not be covered. It is immaterial that both are owned by the same party. We see this often when insureds back out into their own car...2 deductibles.

This is only an unsettled case for those that do not understand the difference between Property Damage Liability (damage to property of another that is the insured's responsibility) and Collision (damage to the insured's vehicle other than as listed above, regardless of responsibility).

And if you run into your own house/garage the damage to the auto is under Collision and to the Home under Coversge A - Structure. Both deductibles are applicable normally. Some carriers apply only the higher one if both are insured in the same company.

Joe Sesto

PS No ($0) deductible Comp coverages is available from some carriers, but it is very seldom accepted b/c of the increased premium.
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Old 08-09-2019, 03:29 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by dvredc5 View Post
This is one of those topics that could go on forever but since Iíve been an insurance agent for State Farm for 29-years I thought I would try to help clarify a few things for everyone.
Thanks for taking the time to write that. One of the keys is that insurance products are completely state-regulated and all over the map, literally and figuratively.

For instance, my Ohio policy (a fault state) says that if I'm in an accident in another state (say, Michigan, a no-fault state) and my coverage limits do not meet that state's minimums, then they are automatically boosted to that state's minimums while I'm in that state.

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Old 08-09-2019, 03:34 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by tfryman View Post
So what insurance company are you telling us to avoid?

When I first shopped for insurance for my MH and decided which companyc to go with, when we were doing the "paperwork" they asked if I would be towing a car. I answered "yes" and they recommended they quote for the car insurance as well because if they were both damaged in the same accident there would only be one deductible. Their quote for the car came in lower than what I was currently paying so that got transferred to them as well and they are both still covered by the same company. The only negative was, since the car was on the policy it became a 6 month renewal instead on an annual renewal.

Awww: State Farm. Should have known.
I was sideswiped by an unlicensed 18 year old driving his mothers car. Her insurance was State Farm. Damage to my vehicle was $6400. State Farm contacted me to say they accepted liability and would pay 70% of the damage because I was required to be aware of my surroundings at all times. Cops were at the scene and ticketed him for no license, improper lane change and failure to yield. I informed them of that and they still would not pay for more than 70%. I submitted it to my carrier and paid a $500 deductible instead of the $2000 State Farm was going to stick me with to get it fixed. It went to arbitration and State Farm was found to be 100% liable and paid up. My agent says they try that crap all the time and are the worst of all the companies he has to deal with.

Good luck, I would force then to arbitration if you can.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Ziggy8321 View Post
We recently returned from an extended trip and 600 miles from home our tow bar broke and the car then hit the motorhome. Fortunately no serious damage and no one hurt as it broke in rural Mississippi. Had it broken elsewhere I hate to think of the carnage.

The tow bar is long out of warranty but I did what any reasonable person would and contacted my insurance company (State Farm).

They are treating it as two collisions and 2 deductables saying that I can't be liable to myself.

My argument is the car was a trailer at the time and not being driven. Had I been towing a trailer they would treat it as comprehensive.

They read me the wording in the policy (have you examined every word of *your* policy) and they consider anything hitting the RV or the RV hitting anything as a collision. I asked "what about windshields, they get hit all the time and replaced under comprehensive. They said that windshield damage is caused by a missile (rock etc). I argued the car was a missile as it was was not being driven and was launched by the breaking bar etc.

Not only that, they will not pay to replace the tow bar as it is a manufacturing defect. I guess it a tie rod broke they wouldn't pay because it was a manufacturing defect to blame.

If anyone has had this type of claim, I'd certainly like to know how it was handled etc. And if you haven't, better check your policy.

I am still too angry to do much else but share and vent this way but I am seriously considering a lawyer, but the dollar amounts are not that much, probably less than $10,000 and a lawyer won't touch it on contingency as the payout to them is too little and if I have to pay and know the rest.
I was getting jerked around by Good Sam's underwriters until a friend in a body shop gave me a tip. He said to notify them in writing (email is fine, you need a paper trail to hold their feet to the fire, phone calls are ineffective). In the email advise them that you think "they are acting in bad faith" and you are going to contact the insurance commissioner for your state. I am in California and when I did that the entire process suddenly changed from delay and bicker over the amount they were willing to pay to one where they did everything they could in order to calm me down and get my rig fixed to my satisfaction, (which they finally did). Just accept that all insurance companies are most efficient at collecting our premiums but when it comes to paying out you are sent to another department whose job it is to wear you down and minimize how much they pay to meet their contractual obligations. Good luck the larger the claim the bigger the fight you will have to endure.
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Old 08-09-2019, 05:43 PM   #49
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Although I haven't even taken the RV for estimates, it is going to be 2 collision claims.

As a number of experienced insurance folks here have said, you can't be liable to yourself.

Although I feel I would win in court, the cost makes it not worth fighting anymore.

State Farm is going to subrogate (get money from) Roadmaster and refund my deductible at least (I'm not holding my breath).

Not sure what I will do when renewal time comes around but most insurance companies are basically the same and even the specialty companies have MANY complaints.

Thanks to all for the great feedback.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:02 PM   #50
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Sorry to hear about your unfortunate incident. Your insurance company is correct. When any two vehicles collide it is a collision accident for each of them. When you collide with someone elseís vehicle and are responsible for the collision, your collision coverage pays for damages to your vehicle minus any deductible. Your property damage liability coverage pay for any damages to the other personís vehicle that you are ďlegally responsible forĒ. When you own both vehicles in the collision, you are not legallyĒresponsible for the damage to the other vehicle. The easiest way to determine if you are legally responsible is if the other party could sue you if you didnít handle their damage. You canít sue yourself, so you canít be legally responsible to yourself. Therefore each of your vehicles is covered under itís own collision coverage minus any deductible. You will normally be considered at fault for one and the other will be not at fault. You can file complaints or imply litigation but you will not be successful. Your policy is a contract and the are interpreting it correctly. Itís not a great situation but donít waste time and money on something you canít win. Hope that helps explain why they are saying what they are.
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Old 08-10-2019, 03:53 AM   #51
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I ended up my 8 year underwriting carrier as a supervising personal auto underwriter for 4 western states. I'm really not so sure that every underwriter would consider this a fault loss if the cause can be significantly attributed to a defective tow bar. That might NOT be the case if the towbar was inadequately designed for the load it was pulling or if it were improperly mounted/installed/safety chained. That's what physical damage adjusters do on this type loss where there is no apparent negligence of the insured/driver. There are accidents that are nobody's fault, but very few.

But I wouldn't bank on it, but it is worth a shot if Roadmaster is found to be a contributing factor. Since there are no injuries and the question is just the deductibles this might not be worth an attorney's time unless it is a close family member that owes you a favor.

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