Driving a DP verses a gas class A

[vanmark]

To answer some questions of the OP. We have a journey with a 360 hp diesel and we pull a Ford super duty diesel pick up which is a heavy truck and it does fine. We are not the first one to the top of the mountain but it does ok. Ours is a single rear axle and we don’t have a problem with wind or passing trucks unless it is real windy or very gusty. As far as leaving it set for long periods of time, farmers let equipment set for months at a time. Also there are thousands of snowbirds that don’t start the diesels for several months during the winter. Our Winnebago Journey we have had for seven years and it is the second Winnebago we have had and it has been very good. Oil and lube is every 15,000 miles, so I don’t find the normal maintenance that bad.

[jaydee325]

Another thing I'll add is there are nice used DP motorhomes out there for new gas coach money. That is what pushed us to a DP when budget was a concern.

[iowaone]

I have a 380 HP Journey 40u. I pull a Buick Enclave about 5000 lb. Put over 40,00O miles on it. Western and Eastern mountains and flatland s. No handling issues at all. Rides smooth but do hear the bumps more than feel them. I definitely feel the big bumps though. No Engine noise but you do get tire and some wind noise in the Journey (especially with a headwind). Semi are not an issue for me. I certainly can’t keep up with the cars on 6% grades but pass the semi’s.

[Rob_M]

I have heard of certain DP’s having handling issues, but nothing compared to gassers. I won’t mention brands because I don’t want to offend owners of said problem DP’s. The smoothest riding DP’s will probably have independent front suspension.

Things on my highly opinionated DP want list would be,

Side radiator

Cat or Cummins engine(8.3 or larger Cummins) Stay away from Navistar / International

Pre-emissions

3000 series or larger Allison trans

Fiberglass or Aluminum roof.

Ability to use it with slides in.

7500 or larger diesel generator.

Paint and clearcoat instead of gelcoat and decals.

Detailed maintenance records

Look for rust issues.

[Winemaker2]

Good advice so far and I agree.
We have had 2 gasser before our current DP but would never go back.
Yes higher initial and maint cost so only you can decide that. IMO a DP will hold its value better than gasser all other things being equal (care & naint).
I'm a fan of Newmar due to the Comfort Drive feature. Don't want to start any brand wars but CD is a real plus when driving and not just a marketing gimmick. Lots of threads about it in the Newmar section.
If budget is a concern look at older DPs made by the top quality mfgrs.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Just read the forums for repairs, gas coaches do not even have a chassis forum like Freightliner and Spartan. Same for engines, I've never seen an irv2.com forum for Ford gas engines.

Here ya go: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/ [emoji4]

I've never even ridden in a DP so I'm interested in this topic as well. The advice to read the particular forums for those you're interested in is good. And I'll add TAKE NOTES.

I was surprised to read multiple posts from DP owners asking about changing shocks to Koni and similar posts to get a better ride or handling.

The advice about getting IFS and more horsepower than 360 is pretty common.

Some DP transmissions (an Allison model?) are limited to towing 5,000 lbs while the Ford F-53 24,000 GVWR chassis can tow 6,000 lbs (GCWR - GVWR).

Certain diesel engines in certain years or particular serial number ranges seem to have some problems that can be very expensive. One serial number range has a problem with wrist pins breaking. Another has a problem with the EGR valve being in the wrong place and needing more frequent replacements for a three year or so range around 2009. Then there is the massive fiasco with DEF heads used by Spartan. Spartan chassis owners seem to like a lot of things about their chassis but availability of service shops is not one of them. Spartan owners also seem to like changing the shocks. Finding shops to work on Tiffin's Powerglide chassis also seems to be an issue but not too terribly bad. Freightliner chassis owners seem to have a much easier time finding Freightliner shops but it seems some or many do not want to work on motorhomes and may even charge higher labor rates if they do.

I'm also reading a seemingly increasing number of posts from owners of new Newmar and Tiffin models complaining about support and responsiveness decreases from their previous motorhomes that they are attributing to the new brand owners. New Entegra owners seem to be having a particularly tough time with build quality as well. One issue was that Entegra apparently switched to a different toilet from the Tecma in 2021 or thereabouts and owners had a lot of problems so Entegra switched back to Tecma the following year. How does a manufacturer even make that kind of mistake unless the cost difference overrode every other consideration?

As usual, the correct answer seems to be "It depends." Buyer Beware, read a lot, ask a lot of questions, details matter, and take a lot of notes and you'll make a good decision for you and your family.

Also as usual, if buying new the choice of dealers really matters. I think it was NIRVC who started refusing deliveries on new Entegras for their customers if they had non-Tecma toilets while that was still what Entegra was installing; the problem was that bad that quickly for their customers.

If anyone sees an error above please feel free to correct me. If anyone can provide more detail about known problem engines, etc. I'm sure that will also be appreciated.

Ray

[NXR]

Originally Posted by pameridan04

just my opinion, I would look at Tiffin & Newmar first, then maybe Winnie.

I think Winnebago now owns Newmar, Thor now owns Tiffin, and Jayco has owned Entegra for years.

No matter how much new owners claim they will leave their new acquisition alone, the beancounters trumpeting "efficiencies of scale" and "corporate buying power" and executives talking about "profit margins for our shareholders" always seem to win out after a few years.

Ray

[yeloduster]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Just read the forums for repairs, gas coaches do not even have a chassis forum like Freightliner and Spartan. Same for engines, I've never seen an irv2.com forum for Ford gas engines.

Forums for gas powered chassis are present in IRV2. Here is a list of all chassis forums:

Chassis Clubs

Ford Chassis
Freightliner Chassis
Roadmaster Chassis
Spartan Chassis
Sprinter Chassis
Workhorse Custom Chassis (which includes older Chevy chassis)

Owners of gas chassis have a rich source of information available in these forums!

[Teamfoxy]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Just read the forums for repairs, gas coaches do not even have a chassis forum like Freightliner and Spartan. Same for engines, I've never seen an irv2.com forum for Ford gas engines.
That said; I wouldn't trade my present 2000 MH for a new gas powered MH today.

You have not looked very hard if you think there are no forums for the Ford Chassis or the V-10 engine. At 4x the cost to buy, and 2x or 3x the cost to maintain, I would expect a diesel to ride better. But we are quite happy with our Canyon Star and the way it drives. Most people never put enough miles on a coach to justify the cost difference.

[BillJinOR]

I owned a 35’ Winnebago journey. I can say it was certainly slightly more “twitchy” than my current 41 foot tag axle. The difference was night and day with the gas coaches. I don’t believe the “diesel” per se makes that big of a difference but the heavier frame ,airbrakes , air ride etc. does. Put a heavier chassis with full airbag suspension a longer wheelbase with air brakes and the diesels engine brake with an overall heavier coach and the package is night and day difference. Think of riding in a front engine bread truck vs large frame rear engine a passenger bus
I would probably only downsize to a gas again if I wasn’t driving very far just taking short trips and needed a very short coach like 32’ . Lastly, the increased weight capacity of the diesel motorhome chassis allows for better construction with heavier construction of the interior ….while they all have the same type floorplans the materials are sometimes quite different, tile vs vinyl solid doors versus hollow core etc.
take a test drive, you won’t need a long one to tell the difference.

[danrn]

Thank you for all this great information. It is very helpful. I would welcome any off line information that one dose not want to post in the forum (being curtious) about DP's to my email. (danrn@comcast.net)

Thanks

[becks]

Night and day difference, with no comparison in any way.

[dizcom]

Originally Posted by danrn

I'm sure this topic has been asked, but couldn't find it. So one more time.
In my passed I have owned three gas class A's. On my last one I installed everything I could find to make driving it better, but it still was not that great. I understand that gasser's are light compared to a DP and the wheel base is shorter which contributes to it being blown around.
I presently have a 1 ton diesel dually towing a 42 ft Redwood 5th wheel. And I have to say it is awesome and easy to drive even in high winds. But my wife and I miss some of the convenances with a class A. So we are considering going back to a class A, but a DP this time. I have never owned a DP, or even driven one. I will be driving a few soon, but taking a short drive often doesn't allow one to fully see/experience the good and bad. So I would like to ask a few questions. The most important question I have is how well a DP drives on windy days or when semi's pass. I assume a tag axle DP would do better, but the ones I am looking at are mostly single rear axle. The one I am liking right now is the Winnebago Journey 40U. Is the air ride a great thing? How well does the air ride smooth out bumpy roads? Is a 380HP enough power to tow a half ton PU through the mountains? Is the maintenance on a DP similar to that of a 1 ton diesel dually? Is it bad for a DP to sit for 4-6 months (during winter)? This one concerns me a little. I'm old school and believe engines and tranny's need to be run regularly. Any other recommendations or concerns are appreciated.
Thanks,
Dan

DPs are big, heavy things and they don't get pushed around much. The more you weigh, the less you sway. The tag axle doesn't help with sway, but they're on even heavier coaches and the more you weigh...you get it.



To answer your other questions:

• Define "great." Air, by itself, doesn't mean much. They all ride different. Go check some out and decide for yourself. Some coaches with air have lousy rides, some are very smooth.
• It doesn't. If you mean rough roads, then it depends on the manufacturer's choices. Each will ride different, but bumpy roads are going to feel bumpy no matter what you drive.
• Depends on how heavy the coach is and how heavy the truck is, but in general, yes.
• More or less, but think bigger. It will cost more, but the process is essentially the same.

The Winnebago is a really nice coach and the last time we took one out while shopping, the ride was really nice and the 380 in it made for quicker acceleration than we thought it would give and better than a lot of other coaches that seemed similarly configured. Take some test rides and I think you'll see what I mean. The Winnebago was quieter than a lot of other coaches also, especially for the price point. Can't say what it would be with 20 or 30 thousand miles on it, but new it was impressive. We strongly considered a Winnebago before buying our current coach but COVID shortages made it impossible to get one on our timeline. We have not been disappointed with our Holiday Rambler and would recommend you check out the brand as well.

[POPPASMURF]

Owned a couple of DP and some gas, all class A. First, the more toys it has the more likely you will be spending some time maintaining, fixing, looking for parts, looking for someone who knows more about it than you do. That being said, there are some items that are tried and true and easier for the DIY guy to maintain and service. I'm retired form Plumbing, Gas Fitting and Refrigeration. I would not look for a water heater that has co-heat from the engine, good idea until it isn't. Replacement is labour intensive and involves an RV tech getting involved with service of an engine- not in their baliwick of experience. There is no difference in ride between a solid axle and indep0endent suspension. Blind fold a self professed aficionado and they couldn't tell the difference. Two items in that regard, all those moving parts in an independent suspension are that much more costly-including more frequent wheel alignments from all our great roads. Second points, why are all road tractors solid axle, and why were the first chassis manufacturers advertising their independent front end rode "just like a solid axle". One of the biggest problems I have ever had is the wiring in these coaches. The worst was new from the old Heartland buggers, I spent near 90 hours sorting incomplete wiring, screws through wires, live dead ends with no marets or other protection. The second worst is PO's who fancy them selves god's gift to something. Mixing chassis and camper wiring systems should be a hanging offence. There are many good used high end, low mileage early 2000's coaches that have all been sorted and only need a new owner. They won't have all the pollution control equipment that semi functions, and that is a bonus. Most will have the better engines and transmissions. Good luck, you'll enjoy a DP. Don't be frightened of the maintenance, the most daunting thing is to find out where everything is located.