Electric help please

[docj]

Originally Posted by newmar owner

I recently had a similar issue. KOA in Indiana. My power kept going off as well. I too have a quality surge protector. One line was getting up to 133 volts, over voltage. Under or over voltage can destroy componets, especially todays black boxes. Was told same thing, surge protector was too sensitive, remove it. These are built with the sensitivity for a reason and the power source is what needs to be brought into compliance. With a full campground, the power needs to be upgraded to cover it's load, or not fill the campground when everybody needs a full compliment of electric.

FWIW overvoltage like what you experienced is usually caused by a floating neutral. When the voltage on one leg of the 50A circuit goes down because of a loose connection (or something similar) the other leg will experience a corresponding increase in voltage because the two legs are generated off of a 240V split phase circuit.

Our local power company had to fix a similar situation at a site in a park in TX that we own. The technician told me "only you RVers have equipment sensitive enough to recognize this sort of thing." At least he didn't try to tell me to disconnect my protective equipment!

[PCMike]

The Progressive is more than a surge protector. It is also a low voltage protector. You need a Hughes Auto former also which will boost the voltage.

[Dave the mnw]

Even the Hughes autoformer has limitations. I have been at a campground where the power was so bad that the autoformer drew too much current boosting voltage and tripped the panel breaker. Luckily I found another park to move to. The owner at the park was in denial. Running the generator gets expensive.

[VinceB]

Ask for a different row in the park that is on a different circuit/leg. We have done this a few times when our progressive signaled bad power. It worked better than going to another RV park.

More often than not, the park manager/owner knew where the good power was.

[TwelveVolt]

I stayed at a provincial CG in BC where my device showed reverse polarity (30A) at the only site large enough to accommodate my rig. I described the problem to the kids managing the place, but getting it fixed was clearly above their pay grade. Park reviews from years before mentioned the same problem. The only option was to turn off the protection. This would put the breakers and switches on the wrong side of the load, meaning that there would be no breaker protection for a short to ground and all loads would be hot when switched off. So poking around in the toaster with a metal knife when the toaster is “off” could have undesired results.

Any other implications?

[cmjretired]

Try using an adapter and plug into the 50 amp service. Might help, might not. Let us know if it does.

[botiemad]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

What model of Progressive do you have?


If it has Hi/Lo Voltage trip then it will also have Previous Error Code display so you can see what caused it to trip
Lo Voltage trips at 104V


AC Voltage measured at power pedestal at 109V......but under load it will drop

Progressive is NOT too sensitive....voltage is dropping and Progressive is doing what you bought/use it for..protecting your RV Electronics & Motors
Motors (ac fan/compressor) can be damaged when AC Voltage drops below 108V


SO ...bypassing it will just allow your A/C Unit to probably run but at damaging low voltage levels
Got a generator?
If YES....turn off power pedestal breaker and fire up generator ....run it during the day and then when temps cool down swap back to power pedestal

Do what this fellow says.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

I stayed at a provincial CG in BC where my device showed reverse polarity (30A) at the only site large enough to accommodate my rig. I described the problem to the kids managing the place, but getting it fixed was clearly above their pay grade. Park reviews from years before mentioned the same problem. The only option was to turn off the protection. This would put the breakers and switches on the wrong side of the load, meaning that there would be no breaker protection for a short to ground and all loads would be hot when switched off. So poking around in the toaster with a metal knife when the toaster is “off” could have undesired results.

Any other implications?

Besides causing an unsafe condition, I would think there are devices and appliances on newer rigs that might be more sensitive and more easily damaged.

This would not be my first option for sure. But if I had no other choice, and I was absolutely positive that polarity was reversed, then I think i'd reverse the hot and neutral wires where the shore power cord terminates in my rig. In my case, it would be easy because the connections are inside an electrical box using standard wire nuts. It might not be as easy if the cord ends at an ATS, EMS, or surge protector.

One thing is for sure though, if I did do it, I'd make absolutely sure to swap the leads back before I left the campground.

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by AaronColo

This is what ANSI has to say about power distribution.

ANSI C84.1 expects equipment to operate at service voltages between 95% to 105% with a utilization voltage range of 87% to 106% (120V to 600V)

For 120 volt service that's a range of 104 volts to 127 volts. Electrical equipment and appliances sold in the USA should be built to properly operate in this range. It sounds like your surge protector is being overly aggressive at disconnecting power.

X2 !!! Also, I think our A/C units are all rated at 115V (my Coleman Mach by Airxcel is). If they are built to NEMA standards, they are good for +/- 10% voltage without "undue" loss of life (I forget the exact wording). 90% of 115V is 103.5 Volts.

The motor should also have a thermal overload that protects it from damage or damaging its surroundings. I believe this too is code.

Here's a blurb on voltage tolerance from the Coleman Mach Airxcel website (https://www.airxcel.com/coleman-mach...-support/faqs#).

"Proper operating voltage is 115 VAC/60Hz. The unit may be run safely between 104 volts and 125 volts. Do not operate the air conditioner outside of these parameters, as serious component damage may result."

This is, of course, the company protecting itself more than you. It isn't like 103 volts is going to cause immediate damage.

Lower voltage during starting is normal. Most motors will start at 75% of rated voltage.

BTW, 115 motors run on "120"V circuits and are rated as such to allow for voltage drop, particularly between the panel and the outlet. 460 Volt motors run on 480V circuits, etc. Motor voltage ratings and their +/-10% tolerance is always lower than the distribution voltage that serves them.

Also, overvoltage is more hazardous than undervoltage. I.e., a motor will run hotter on overvoltage than on undervoltage (both within the +/- 10%).

[egwilly]

I think the ranger was trying to be helpful. But, it was very bad advise he gave the OP to eliminate the device. The PI was telling him the facts, voltage is too low. Danger Will Robinson!

Our recent experience at a Federal park bears out there are folks out there that don't know what they're doing. We were getting a bad/disconnected ground error on our PI 50 AMP portable. Park host said no way, no one else complaining about it. No site to move to, showed the host the error and subsequent disconnect from service. Moved my trailer cord to a dogbone and plugged into the 30AMP socket. Problem went away, and stayed active.

Obviously a bad/worn out 50A plug in the pedestal. Host sends a electrician out to check the next day....pulls off panel to pedestal, looks around inside and attempts to replace the 50A plug.....ZAP!! Shorts it out with the screwdriver and smokes the circuit inside the box. We heard him yell and groan from inside the trailer. Expected the worse....he was outside holding his arm, and the screwdriver was 20 feet away! Smoke coming out of the circuit breaker area. Bad.

I asked him once he calmed down what happened. He thought he had killed the circuit feed to the box, but got interrupted with a cell phone call, and forgot to do it. He is very lucky to be alive in my opinion. I'm still not sure if he got hit with the full 240.......but regardless he survived.

My point: even people who work around this stuff screw up too. Trust your instruments is the first thing we learn when flying non-visual flight rules. Same here.

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by xrated

One thing is for sure, with 100% accuracy, the Ranger needs to stick to his job "Rangering".......because electrical stuff is NOT his strong point!

X2

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

One thing is for sure though, if I did do it, I'd make absolutely sure to swap the leads back before I left the campground.

We use clothes pins on the steering wheel. The bus does not move until all clothes pins are cleared.

[Mudfrog]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

We use clothes pins on the steering wheel. The bus does not move until all clothes pins are cleared.

Yes, for sure since i'm so forgetful. I tend to rely on my better half to remind me of some things. However, this would be one of those things that I'd double up on the reminder to make sure it got taken care of. Kinda like lock out tag out, I'd at the very least, tag the steering wheel with a reminder that was impossible to miss.

[egwilly]

Sung to the tune "Get up Stand up" by Bob Marley......

Lock out tag out. Lock out for your life.