Electric school buses are coming....can RV's be far behind ?

[CBDunkerson]

Originally Posted by shootist

Hydro electric is less than 6 percent of electric production in the states where it exists.

According to the EIA, hydroelectric is about 66% of electric production in Washington state, and 7% nationwide.

In any case, pumped storage effectively transfers electricity produced from other types of generation to hydroelectric plants (with efficiency losses along the way). So unless a hydro plant is running at 100% capacity every day, it can be used for some storage.

However, like I said... it seems likely that we'll just use batteries for most grid storage going forward.

Originally Posted by shootist

And a 300 watt solar panel covers 24 square feet and produces about 100 watts per solar hour.

The exact size of solar panels depends on their efficiency. I Googled '100 watt solar panel' and used the first set of dimensions I found. Thus, your 8 sq ft per 100 watt value is certainly possible, but so are smaller values. Logically, we'd generally use the smaller / more efficient panels for large power plants... as indeed we do currently.

In any case, using your 8 sq ft figure rather than 5.75 wouldn't significantly change the results... 5.75 / 8 = 0.71

144,175 TWh * 0.71 = 102,364 TWh

That's just a little short of global power consumption... with >99% of the Earth's land area still available to make up the remainder. Quibbling over the details isn't going to change the fact that only a tiny portion of the planet need be covered in solar to meet all of our energy needs.

I'm not sure what you mean about a 300 watt panel only producing "100 watts per solar hour". There are 24 solar hours in a day, so... are you suggesting 100 * 24 = 2,400 watt-hours? That would be too high, unless we are talking about somewhere like southern Mexico rather than California.

A 300 watt panel would yield a number of watt-hours worth of electricity equal to 300 times the average 'peak sun hours' for the location. For California that is about 5 (more in southern California and less in northern), so ~1500 watt-hours per day.

Originally Posted by shootist

So you are spouting a religion not science.

I am 'spouting' math... to demonstrate the accuracy of the various sites I linked which stated that only a small land area is needed for solar power to cover our energy needs.

You, and others, have insisted that the opposite is true... while providing no evidence at all.

Have you heard of the psychological concept of projection?

[shootist]

Originally Posted by CBDunkerson

According to the EIA, hydroelectric is about 66% of electric production in Washington state, and 7% nationwide.

In any case, pumped storage effectively transfers electricity produced from other types of generation to hydroelectric plants (with efficiency losses along the way). So unless a hydro plant is running at 100% capacity every day, it can be used for some storage.

However, like I said... it seems likely that we'll just use batteries for most grid storage going forward.



The exact size of solar panels depends on their efficiency. I Googled '100 watt solar panel' and used the first set of dimensions I found. Thus, your 8 sq ft per 100 watt value is certainly possible, but so are smaller values. Logically, we'd generally use the smaller / more efficient panels for large power plants... as indeed we do currently.

In any case, using your 8 sq ft figure rather than 5.75 wouldn't significantly change the results... 5.75 / 8 = 0.71

144,175 TWh * 0.71 = 102,364 TWh

That's just a little short of global power consumption... with >99% of the Earth's land area still available to make up the remainder. Quibbling over the details isn't going to change the fact that only a tiny portion of the planet need be covered in solar to meet all of our energy needs.

I'm not sure what you mean about a 300 watt panel only producing "100 watts per solar hour". There are 24 solar hours in a day, so... are you suggesting 100 * 24 = 2,400 watt-hours? That would be too high, unless we are talking about somewhere like southern Mexico rather than California.

A 300 watt panel would yield a number of watt-hours worth of electricity equal to 300 times the average 'peak sun hours' for the location. For California that is about 5 (more in southern California and less in northern), so ~1500 watt-hours per day.



I am 'spouting' math... to demonstrate the accuracy of the various sites I linked which stated that only a small land area is needed for solar power to cover our energy needs.

You, and others, have insisted that the opposite is true... while providing no evidence at all.

Have you heard of the psychological concept of projection?

I install solar systems, an 1150 watt system in Arizona will run a medium size fridge and a house, not well, water pump. 8000 watts of d2 agms, That's a 1000 lbs of batteries. Solar has its place, in this case an off grid home. You could improve that particular system with sun tracking but it won't turn it into a nuclear plant. Elon Musk is one of the smartest men in the business, aside from being a con artist, his cars catch fire, he's eating his solar panels he sold to walmart because they catch fire, the boat that went down off santa barbara last week and killed 34 people has a good chance of being from a lithium battery fire. The industry is a long wY from being sorted out and just isn't ready for prime time. 20+ years return on investment for a on grid home system is not viable. The systems have degraded to the point of needing replacement and upgrades by then. Power companies should not have to buy your excess on a sunny day when they make up all your wants 24/7. Go offgrid, run generators, buy batteries and tell me how great it is. That's what all these threads about inverters, batteries and generators are about on this forum. Home generated electricity is very expensive compared to power grid. Recharge your teslas and buses off of your own power. Laughable.

[CBDunkerson]

As your latest reply contains nothing about the topic of discussion, your previous argument that solar requires vast amounts of land (e.g. all of California to power the US), I'll assume that you are conceding that you were wrong.

[shootist]

Originally Posted by CBDunkerson

As your latest reply contains nothing about the topic of discussion, your previous argument that solar requires vast amounts of land (e.g. all of California to power the US), I'll assume that you are conceding that you were wrong.

You clearly have not comprehended what I said. The output figures you use are pure fantasy. Doesn't happen in the real world.

[jcussen]

Have had 1000 watts on my S&B roof for 9 years, a mppt controller feeding two 4d agms, through a 2000 watt inverter to run a 12 cubic foot freezer. Never touched the system. Wish everything was this reliable.

[CBDunkerson]

Video on high efficiency (34%) thin film solar cells that Toyota is testing

Too expensive for mass production currently, but those flexible business card sized cells would work really well with RVs. They are small enough to easily fit around AC vents, windows, and the like... potentially doubling the effective solar area while also increasing the efficiency.

Maybe someday we'll see people not just running all the RV internals off solar (as some setups can manage now), but actually driving the vehicle on solar power.

Also, the new model of the Iridium electric RV has increased its advertised range to 249 miles. Still not great, but a big increase (~60 miles) from last year. Will be interesting to see how they stack up compared to the electric Winnebagos.

[Discal]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...eep/ar-AAIs9BV

[radar]

Originally Posted by Discal

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enth...eep/ar-AAIs9BV

Kinda cool.

[pasdad1]

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/winne...-electric-rvs/

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by pasdad1

https://electrek.co/2019/10/18/winne...-electric-rvs/

Attachment 263977

A wise manufacturer will produce anything that people will buy. They make no decisions on practicality but simply if they can sell it for a profit.

[CBDunkerson]

The Tesla pickup is being advertised as having 240 volt outlets. What sort of equipment would that allow that you don't often see in motorhomes currently?