Ethanol in gas

[Cattledog]

Corn used for Ethonal production IS (feed) corn and is returned back to the animal food chain. Better than just plain shelled corn. We feed about 75ton a week in combined DDG's and Syrup. Also the one acre you speak of being taken away from food grade crops used for increased corn production for the Ethonal and cattle grain market has come out of CRP land and so far only 18%, so that leaves a big total of CRP land to just sit there and produce just what the government pays to have it in there program....As of yesterdays price for E85 and gas, Based on my trucks mpg, if the price never changed in 50,000miles that would be a savings of $1000.00 by using E85. That $1000.00 in my pocket looks a bunch better than in ABDULA's.. Happy Camping....

[Gary RVRoamer]

here in the Corn Belt at least, you can buy "flexfuel" cars, which are designed to run on up to E-85.

Flex fuel cars are widely available and can use E85 fuel, but cannot take advantage of its properties because they also have to work with pure gasoline or anything in between. That's what the "flex" part means. To exploit the properties of ethanol requires using a higher compression engine, and a higher compression engine cannot run on regular unleaded gas. It would require high test gas as an alternative to high ethanol content gas. None of the flex fuel cars today are like that

[historyljc]

Putting my breakfast in my fuel tank makes about as much sense to me as trying to drink my supper out of my fuel tank. It's amazing how much food prices have risen since this nonsense (IMHO) with ethenol in the fuel began.

[Cattledog]

Amazing! Just Amazing! Happy Camping.

[WOODYDEL]

Don't let anyone fool you. Ethanol is a stupid idea. If you don't want to believe what's being said here then go to your kind benevolent government website fueleconomy.gov. Find a Car

Look for cars which don't use gasoline. The listing of cars will demonstrate the mileage hit you receive with this wonderful fuel destroyer.

Why can't it be put into the pipelines? It's causes corrosion.
What does it absorb? Water.
Who is paying for the ethanol/E85? You are at 1 buck a gallon! (That's right)
That guy "saving" the world is driving on YOUR DOLLAR. That's a ponzi scheme (not sustainable)
Race cars used ethanol. Sure they do/did a wonderful example of wasting fuel.


Now if you wanted to use corn to make fuel at least make biobutanol. Same energy content per gallon as gasoline, does not attract water as much, can be mixed at the refinery and PUT IN THE PIPELINES, Best of all. YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE ONE D--- THING ON YOUR VEHICLE Even if you ran it straight without gasoline.

What? Never heard of it right? Neither do those "leaders" in D.C.. Who rammed this garbage fuel into your lives.

[ccook129]

E-85 $1.99 gal in my town arabs get $.00 don't care where the rest goes.17 refineres in my area no need for a pipeline,my grandfather used to make it in his back yard (corn whiskey).

[WOODYDEL]

Originally Posted by ccook129

E-85 $1.99 gal in my town arabs get $.00 don't care where the rest goes.17 refineres in my area no need for a pipeline,my grandfather used to make it in his back yard (corn whiskey).

What's with the "arabs" angle? Those politicians have you fooled again.

Read this:
Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

Whose next on your list of "bad" oil producers? Shouldn't Canada be on the list first.


If it's the same as what your grandfather made, why are we doing the same old cr** in the 21st century?

All the farmers in your area are making the wrong product from the corn. Ethanol is a stupid product.

Biobutanol, you probably never even heard of it. Your low price is on everyone else's dollar per gallon or better and the product blows.

I'm remembering when they first started to ramp up the ethanol production. Millions of people in other countries could not afford to buy food! It's not fiction, people starved to death. But what the heck, they were probably not going to amount to much anyway. And we need to drive our cars, right?

All I'm saying is that to take farmland and waste it making an inferior product is a crime against ourselves. Make the best use of what you have. Don't make a half *** decision and then stubbornly stick with it.

Biobutanol from corn would have been the right choice. Not the easiest.

I didn't even get into cellulosic biobutanol.

Thank you Mr farmer for killing the soil. You know what corn does to soil.

[WOODYDEL]

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

Flex fuel cars are widely available and can use E85 fuel, but cannot take advantage of its properties because they also have to work with pure gasoline or anything in between. That's what the "flex" part means. To exploit the properties of ethanol requires using a higher compression engine, and a higher compression engine cannot run on regular unleaded gas. It would require high test gas as an alternative to high ethanol content gas. None of the flex fuel cars today are like that

Gary I want to sell you one. That's what you are saying in your comment. You think that the BTU content of the fuel changes with the compression ratio. It is not true. Do you actually believe that Detroit ( or wherever the heck they make cars) with all the latest technology can't take advantage of ethanol. What the h***! They produce cars with variable cam timing, sensors which trigger access to computer programs developed in labs which change the way your engine runs by the microsecond. They routinely produce regular everyday cars with engines producing more than one HP per cubic inch. Do you remember the sixties? High performance would be a 327 with 350 horses. Now a little rice burner blows it away in spades.

You cannot escape the fact that ethanol has a low BTU content. It cannot be "FIXED". It takes x amount of energy to move y pounds over z distance.

Look at the fueleconomy.gov link under cars which don't need gasoline. Look at the difference in miles per gallon. It's the same percentage difference as the energy content differs between the two fuels.

Several months ago, I remember seeing some joker on a TV show staging a race between a gasoline powered and an ethanol powered car. "Look" he said " the ethanol car is just as fast as the gasoline powered car". It was like listening to a snake oil show. Just what was he saying? Nothing except to take you mind off the absolutely lousy mileage per gallon. Not a single word about it. It was a con job in action.

Did you see that show?



Look at the 2010 model year. First one a Malibu. Goes from 33 hwy down to 23!!!! He has to buy 7 gallons + to equal 5 gallons of gasoline.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

[Dave and Jaime]

Originally Posted by Cattledog

Corn used for Ethonal production IS (feed) corn and is returned back to the animal food chain. Better than just plain shelled corn. We feed about 75ton a week in combined DDG's and Syrup. Also the one acre you speak of being taken away from food grade crops used for increased corn production for the Ethonal and cattle grain market has come out of CRP land and so far only 18%, so that leaves a big total of CRP land to just sit there and produce just what the government pays to have it in there program....As of yesterdays price for E85 and gas, Based on my trucks mpg, if the price never changed in 50,000miles that would be a savings of $1000.00 by using E85. That $1000.00 in my pocket looks a bunch better than in ABDULA's.. Happy Camping....

Cattledog, don't forget that there is that pesky federal subsidy of $.51/gal for ethanol that we taxpayers are paying. You may not pay it at the pump but I presume you pay taxes and indirectly pay more for your E85. Now, since few taxpayers actually buy E85, you are probably being subsidized by fellow taxpayers so your net savings is higher but without the taxpayer subsidy, your savings at the pump would be negligable, as E85 prices would rise by that amount. If you still want to support domestic farmers and keep the price of corn higher, fine, but the E85 industry has not demonstrated that it can thrive and succeed without substantial taxpayer subsidies. (Which is the very reason there are subsidies in the first place).

[Cattledog]

Boy this sure is a great Topic. It is very nice to see a cross section of all the mis-information. And lack of knowledge being displayed. If this topic were read by all from the very first post, it shows a very good cross section of information from people who have no idea what a corn stock even looks like. Then there are the knowledgable ones. The battle to fight illiterate, city dewellers on the what type of corn is used for food or fuel. Not one time did anyone mention anything about 1 1/2 year ago when gas or diesel went from 1.97 to 4.05 and diesel went from 1.84 to 4.57. Do think that might have had something to do with food prices. Abdula didn't have any trouble buying food or fuel. Pipelines were built by government money for the big oil companys, look at the dead earth surrounding each refinery, Epa being the worst to over look big oil. I'm enjoying this little visit with all.. I don't want to make anyone mad, but I will do my very best to debate what I know is true in this. I do have a personal relationship, with most of the Missouri Farmer Owned plants (as a consumer of by-products only) knowledge is power, each and everyone should have the ability to make informed decisions. Happy Camping.

[WOODYDEL]

Originally Posted by Dave and Jaime

Cattledog, don't forget that there is that pesky federal subsidy of $.51/gal for ethanol that we taxpayers are paying. You may not pay it at the pump but I presume you pay taxes and indirectly pay more for your E85. Now, since few taxpayers actually buy E85, you are probably being subsidized by fellow taxpayers so your net savings is higher but without the taxpayer subsidy, your savings at the pump would be negligable, as E85 prices would rise by that amount. If you still want to support domestic farmers and keep the price of corn higher, fine, but the E85 industry has not demonstrated that it can thrive and succeed without substantial taxpayer subsidies. (Which is the very reason there are subsidies in the first place).

He's paying at the pump but can't figure it out.

2010 Chevy Malibu uses 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons of gas. That's 2 gallons more to buy. Those two gallons are going to come out of his pocket no matter what. Without the subsidy it's even worse.

Besides that fact if they made the right fuel out of the crop the BTU content would be nearly the same as gasoline. What's so hard to figure out?

Did you miss the fact that you would NOT HAVE TO MODIFY ANY CAR OR TRUCK? I could use it in my 1948 Cub same as gasoline.

[WOODYDEL]

Butanol has been made for at least 100 years. It was a "green" fuel way back when.

Something to read to broaden your knowledge.

http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmg..._secondary.pdf

[Cattledog]

I feel your pain, But do you know what the .50 subsidy is for, You do now, (It is blenders fee's big oil charges to blend it at the Rack. Another victory for big Oil YEA!!! ) And for your Butanol (Sugar) is the big player here. To get sugar from cellulose to distill, is a lot more energy consuming, than getting it from corn. And with that said one of the biggest Ethonal players here in MO, has spent 30million in there profits alone to figure just that very subject out. And the list goes on. There targeting corn cobbs. John Deere joined forces with them to make a machine to harvest the cobbs also. Who else is trying to help stop our dependance on foreign oil. One of the largest plants in Great State of Texas makes bio-diesel from cow manure Ummm Go figure. I wonder how that technology was developed. You think big oil?? NO.. You talked about the water in your fuel tank.... Well with gas it won't blend and just sits there until you run low on fuel and it gets picked up and shuts you down. E85 will mix and get it out and run. Course all you diesel fans have a seperator and fuel filters atleast 2 that get plugged up with water quit often. 50.00 bucks and your good to go. Maybe we should all sit on our wide spot's and wait for the Dept of Energy to figure this all out.. There really competent. Can anyone name one thing they have done since there span of existance that helped our dependance on foreign oil. I can't Now there is a case of pounding money down a rat hole. And that hole keeps getting bigger and bigger. How about those MTBS in gas, not in the Corn juice. And as far as your 7gal to 5gal ratio in mpg, that simply is just a out and out untruth. All our trucks we drive with and without trailers hooked to them see about a 2mpg drop. With or with out loads of up to 18,000 lb of cattle. And with different drivers from time to time. Really consistant. Good stuff.... Happy Camping.

[a k]

Propane 91,000 btu/gal and you wouldn't have to ever change the oil. Just paid $1.75/gal delivered. It's a shame you can't get it everywhere for that.