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Old 01-07-2009, 08:56 AM   #1
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Yesterday I gassed up at Sam's Club in Ocala. I noticed a sign on the pump stating, "This fuel may contain up to 10% alcohol". First I've seen any mention of ethanol in gasoline in Florida.

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Old 01-07-2009, 08:56 AM   #2
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Yesterday I gassed up at Sam's Club in Ocala. I noticed a sign on the pump stating, "This fuel may contain up to 10% alcohol". First I've seen any mention of ethanol in gasoline in Florida.

-Tom
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:12 AM   #3
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We spend 6 months of the year in florida and every station I have used in the last two years has had those signs.
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Old 01-07-2009, 10:31 AM   #4
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This is a state requirement (almost certain). It contains only about 75% as much energy per gallon and therefore gets less milage. You (as a taxpayer) are paying 51 cents a gallon subsidity for it also. This is an idea that just hasn't panned out and should be stopped. We have plenty of oil and natural gas waiting to be used.
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:43 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by speed racer:
We spend 6 months of the year in florida and every station I have used in the last two years has had those signs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I must not have paid attention. First I've seen it and we've been here for 6 months the last 7 years.

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Old 01-07-2009, 01:58 PM   #6
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Wonderful garbage, ethanol is. Been dealing with it here for a couple years now. Stuff's good at eating fuel filters.
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Old 01-07-2009, 04:33 PM   #7
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Methanol is also an alcohol and I believe it can also be used up to 10% for unmodified cars, so it might not mean ethanol (but probably does).

As a replacement for oil, I agree that ethanol made from corn is highly questionable. However it should also be seen as an additive which increases octane rating and promotes cleaner burning of the fuel (less pollution). A few years back, at least here in CA, they used an additive called something like MTBE (I probably got those letters wrong, and I sure don't remember the full chemical name) to do much the same thing. Unfortunately it's highly toxic and got in the ground water from leaking filling station gas tanks. A real mess - so as an additive, ethanol may be preferable to the alternatives.
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:23 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jspande:
As a replacement for oil, I agree that ethanol made from corn is highly questionable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there is another oil embargo or severe shortage I'll be glad we have the capability to utilize ethanol. Ethanol is not a viable replacement for oil when oil is less than $200 but it certainly is viable when oil is in short supply, IMHO.

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Old 01-08-2009, 01:28 AM   #9
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jspande:
As a replacement for oil, I agree that ethanol made from corn is highly questionable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there is another oil embargo or severe shortage I'll be glad we have the capability to utilize ethanol. Ethanol is not a viable replacement for oil when oil is less than $200 but it certainly is viable when oil is in short supply, IMHO.

-Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom,

What everyone seems to miss is that with a full 10% ethanol you can lose 20% fuel efficiecy so what took you 80 gallons of gas now can take 90 gallons of gas and an additional 10 gallons of ethanol.

They have wasted gasoline and tons of corn by putting 10% ethanol in. If you end up stuck where the station only has 15% ethanol you waste even more gasoline. It is insane that this thing ever got off the ground and put into practice.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:45 AM   #10
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I'll more than gladly take the 10% ethanol when we're on odd/even days and/or 5 gallons max per visit. I remember the oil embargo chaos of the early 70's.

FWIW, I buy gas in VA and VA uses 10% ethanol. I have never seen more than a 10% loss, and mostly much less, in gas mileage in either my motorhome or my cars.

I thought VA was the only state between PA and FL that sold 10% ethanol until I saw the pumps at Sams Club the other day. I thought this was new for FL but someone corrected me and said ethanol has been added in FL for a couple years.

I never buy gas for my motorhome in FL because I always filled up in Brunswick, GA in the fall and that fill up was enough to get me to my FL destination and back to Brunswick in the spring.

I know there is a controversy concerning the amount of oil/gas needed to produce ethanol but I have never seen any substantiated proof that it takes more than a gallon of oil/gas to produce a gallon of ethanol. Maybe I'll asked one of the Iowa farmers parked here for the winter.

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Old 01-08-2009, 07:04 AM   #11
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Florida's mandatory 10% ethanol law has some exceptions, the most notable one being that it is not required if ethanol blend costs more than pure, unblended gas, which it currently does.

Some info here: http://www.e0pc.com/FL.php
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:30 AM   #12
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The sticker on the pump says May contain 10% ethanol. Ethanol does contain less energy than gasoline. At 10%, it is hard for anybody to see a difference in milage with all of the other factors, but it does not have the energy of gasoline and as taxpayers, we are subdizing it at 51 cents per gallon. As far as avoiding the shortages of the 70's, we have huge reserves offshore and in Alaska and shortages are political, not through lack of crude. As a country, we have chosen to buy our energy from overseas and suffer whatever problems this will cause in the present or the future.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:08 PM   #13
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lindsay Richards:
The sticker on the pump says May contain 10% ethanol. Ethanol does contain less energy than gasoline. At 10%, it is hard for anybody to see a difference in milage with all of the other factors, but it does not have the energy of gasoline... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On my 2001 F53 20,000lb chassis on my 3,600 mile fall trip I averaged over the 3,600 miles 10 on straight gas, 8 on up to 10% ethanol and 6 on up to 15% (it was that or nothing) ethanol.

On my 4 cylinder standard Saturn Vue it is 25 mpg straight gas and 20 mpg on up to 10%. I record every fillup and it is a very noticable difference.
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Old 01-09-2009, 03:24 PM   #14
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Ethanol Production

The cost of producing ethanol varies with the cost of the feedstock used and the scale of production. Approximately 85 percent of ethanol production capacity in the United States relies on corn feedstock. The cost of producing ethanol from corn is estimated to be about $1.10 per gallon. Although there is currently no commercial production of ethanol from cellulosic feedstocks such as agricultural wastes, grasses and wood, the estimated production cost using these feedstocks is $1.15 to $1.43 per gallon.

Because a gallon of ethanol contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline, the production cost of ethanol must be multiplied by a factor of 1.5 to make an energy-cost comparison with gasoline. This means that if ethanol costs $1.10 per gallon to produce, then the effective cost per gallon to equal the energy contained in a gallon of gasoline is $1.65. In contrast, the current wholesale price of gasoline is about 90 cents per gallon.

The federal motor fuel excise tax on gasohol, a blended fuel of 10-percent ethanol and 90-percent gasoline, is 5.4 cents less per gallon than the tax on straight gasoline. In other words, the federal subsidy is 54 cents per gallon of ethanol when the ethanol is blended with gasoline. The subsidy makes ethanol-blended fuel competitive in the marketplace and stimulates the growth of an ethanol production and distribution infrastructure.

Source: oregon.gov
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