Community Forums

Superslif · 07-06-2011, 04:46 PM

The last few months I have read reports from the Govt. who wants to blend more Ethanol into our gas. I'm assuming right now we are getting up to 10% Ethanol in our gas. It is said you get "has less energy per unit" from this mix. So how is the octane levels still reached? It also goes on to say some vehicles are having problems with the Ethanol blending. A New York Times article states

Quote:

More ethanol will confuse exhaust control systems and make engines run too hot, destroying catalytic converters, oxygen sensors, valve seals. automakers say. It can also damage engine cylinders, they say.

The reason I'm asking is, I have replaced both my catalytic converters at under 20k miles, and now at 40K I think they are going again. I have replaced the oxygen sensor twice now also....All under warranty. But my 7/70 warranty runs out in 6 months.

Right now 10% Ethanol can be mixed in. But the Govt. is going to rule if that can be increases to 15% or 20%....

So if Ethanol decreases your power, which means you get less gas mileage. How do I know what kind of gas I'm pumping into my tank. The last few fill-ups, I didn't see anything as to how much Ethanol blend % I was buying. Even asking the clerk in the gas station, they just shrugged their shoulders...?

The first pair of catalytic converters cost the dealer $3500 and took 3 weeks to order from Japan. Luckily, it was during the off-season from camping.

TXiceman · 07-06-2011, 05:14 PM

No one ever said that the folks in DC had a clue about real life. They are bought for a price. But I can't say anything political.

Ken

sac1 · 07-06-2011, 05:16 PM

I get the same problem with oxygen sensors and I have recently been adding a fuel additive. Been using Lucas. I do not know which additive is best to use. I just know after adding my check engine light goes off after reading oxygen sensor problem.

historyljc · 07-06-2011, 09:06 PM

Still makes no sense to me to put my Corn Flakes in my fuel tank.

blackf3504dr · 07-07-2011, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TXiceman

No one ever said that the folks in DC had a clue about real life. They are bought for a price. But I can't say anything political.

Ken

Ain't that the truth ! At a time when our government is dictating increased mileage for new vehicles, they want to increase the amount of ethanol allowed which decreases mileage.....

Gary RVRoamer · 07-07-2011, 10:13 AM

State laws differ, but most require the pump to be labeled if it contains ethanol. There is no federal law requiring that ethanol be mixed with regular unleaded gas, but several states do have such laws.

Octane doesn't measure the amount of energy in the fuel. It is an indication of how much the air-fuel mixture can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. Higher compression engines need higher octane fuel, but do not necessarily go more miles per gallon. Often the opposite, in fact.

The idea behind ethanol is that we can grow more corn or other grains every year, but it takes a million years to grow more petroleum. That's true enough, but if theethanol is made from corn, it costs more petroeum to produce it than it saves in gasoline. Not too smart... Now if other crops are used, the figures might get more favorable, but a lot of big money has been invested in corn ethanol production and the farmers love the higher prices for their corn. Sooo, Congress loves ethanol....

ehunt · 07-07-2011, 10:31 AM

15% ethanol pumps will have to be labeled according to this: http://www.eenews.net/public/eenewspm/2011/06/28/1

Clay L · 07-07-2011, 10:44 AM

The bad news is my 8.1L Vortec manual says 10% ethanol is okay. It says nothing about 15%.

RJay · 07-07-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

State laws differ, but most require the pump to be labeled if it contains ethanol. There is no federal law requiring that ethanol be mixed with regular unleaded gas, but several states do have such laws.

Octane doesn't measure the amount of energy in the fuel. It is an indication of how much the air-fuel mixture can be compressed before it spontaneously ignites. Higher compression engines need higher octane fuel, but do not necessarily go more miles per gallon. Often the opposite, in fact.

The idea behind ethanol is that we can grow more corn or other grains every year, but it takes a million years to grow more petroleum. That's true enough, but if theethanol is made from corn, it costs more petroeum to produce it than it saves in gasoline. Not too smart... Now if other crops are used, the figures might get more favorable, but a lot of big money has been invested in corn ethanol production and the farmers love the higher prices for their corn. Sooo, Congress loves ethanol....

You might be interested in a new abiotic oil theory being discussed about how oil is formed.

Yellowreef · 07-07-2011, 02:24 PM

Dont forget it also drives the price of ANY AND ALL corn products up.

wildtoad · 07-07-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellowreef

Dont forget it also drives the price of ANY AND ALL corn products up.

As well the livestock that is fed that higher priced corn. Using food to create fuel is just nuts. Now we hear from the UN that we will need to double the worlds food supply by 2050...

RustyJC · 07-07-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary RVRoamer

There is no federal law requiring that ethanol be mixed with regular unleaded gas.....

Actually, the Federal EPA has ruled that Harris and 7 surrounding counties (the Houston metropolitan area) as well as other non-attainment areas in Texas must use gasolines with 10% ethanol as an oxygenate. We have no choice regarding whether or not we buy ethanol in our gasoline.

By the way, BTU content has nothing to do with octane rating. Ethanol has lower BTU content but higher octane rating (113) than gasoline - that's one reason alcohol-fueled racing engines (where alcohol is allowed) can run higher compression pressures and make more power than gasoline-fueled racing engines.

Rusty

Cat320 · 07-07-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackf3504dr

Ain't that the truth ! At a time when our government is dictating increased mileage for new vehicles, they want to increase the amount of ethanol allowed which decreases mileage.....

...and the decreased mileage means we burn more fuel!

Superslif · 07-07-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Ain't that the truth ! At a time when our government is dictating increased mileage for new vehicles, they want to increase the amount of ethanol allowed which decreases mileage....

What worries me are the effects it has to my vehicle. Having replaced both my catalytic converters at under 20k miles, and now at 40K I think they are going again. I'm starting to get the same "funny sound" I heard when they fail the first time. I have also replaced the oxygen sensor twice now..

One of the New York Times articles said the valve seal rubber, because of less lubrication from higher Ethanol blends are possible to fail.

There must be a lot of lobbyist $$$ money tied up in the Ethanol production market to over look what the true cost is for using corn.

I'm going to ask the manager at my local gas station where I fill up in town what their Ethanol blend is.