Good Sam forces Pilot / FJ to quit TSD discount program

[mike625]

Originally Posted by geordi

PFJ
Contracts aren't forever, and when they see that there's a potential SIGNIFICANT loss in revenue from losing the RV community as customers, that contract may become less desirable for PFJ to continue. Business is business.

+1 - Look at it this way - Walmart, Costco or any big chain does not pay the same price as a single small store for this same product.

The issue with this whole thing - GS comes out of this looking slime because they were not helping the RV'ers - just them self. If PFJ comes back into the program - no problem, I would use them if they were an options and the price was the same as Loves or TA.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by geordi

PFJ had an "exclusive" contract with Bad Sam to sell to them at the fleet rate, and charge their customers 8 cents less than the posted price, sending the rest of the money to Bad Sam.

For 300k gallons a month, that is a substantial amount of money being sent to Bad Sam, so it doesn't take a genius to see that they'd want to protect that free money that they are taking from the RV users.

The truck stops don't care who is actually getting the fuel OR the discounts - just that they are selling more fuel. The benefit of a fleet negotiation is that the fleet is agreeing to loyalty / volume with the truck stop chain, which means higher fuel volume sold. They aren't selling the fuel below cost, but they ARE making even more money on the other items that people buy when they stop.

Nothing that we or TSD is doing is against any laws or practices. We are just leveraging transaction volume with TSD to enjoy a discount that TSD has negotiated for ALL their fleet members. That PFJ got caught in the middle is unfortunate, but entirely b/c of the contract that they signed many years ago with Bad Sam.

Contracts aren't forever, and when they see that there's a potential SIGNIFICANT loss in revenue from losing the RV community as customers, that contract may become less desirable for PFJ to continue. Business is business.

Originally Posted by mike625

+1 - Look at it this way - Walmart, Costco or any big chain does not pay the same price as a single small store for this same product.

The issue with this whole thing - GS comes out of this looking slime because they were not helping the RV'ers - just them self. If PFJ comes back into the program - no problem, I would use them if they were an options and the price was good.

Agree with both posts.


However, if one believes "business is business," then one should not beat up on GS for any reason other that they made a bad business decision, in your opinion. Does anyone really think that TSD is not just helping themselves?



GS made an exclusive contract with P/FJ and offered a fuel discount to RVers for many years before TSD entered the picture. Good business decision and few complained. And yes, GS is supposed to be in the RV support business, but it isn't and never was. It is in the retail business and service industry, focusing on one particular segment of the economy, RVs. Like any business, they will aid and support their customer base because it's good business, not magnanimity.



With TSD now in play for RVs, the GS P/FJ discount is no longer attractive to diesel fuel buyers. If GS does not match the current discounts, they will lose customers. That is a business decision. We don't know the size of the revenue stream GS receives from diesel fuel sales. Perhaps matching the TSD discount would impact their revenue enough that it would be a bad business decision to follow suit. Perhaps the amount of diesel users is so small that the loss is relatively painless. We don't know.


We do know, however, that allowing one party to an exclusive contract to ignore its stipulations is a bad business decision.


I am no fan of GS and have seen the gradual change of their focus move from RV customers to business bottom line. If they get "slimed" by this recent action it's because their old public image is inconsistent with their new business reality.

[BillJinOR]

Originally Posted by richard5933

I don't know about the current stats, but at one point in the fall it was reported that RV owners on the TSD program were pumping more fuel than the truck drivers in their program. The more gallons in total TSD pumps, the larger their leverage in negotiating discounts.

TSD is small potatoes. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But those claiming big numbers should realize that those numbers may be big to you but are really not earth shaking to a major fuel operation that works with millions daily

[zigzagrv]

My MH is a gasser, so I don't have a dog in this fight. However, I try to use FJ whenever possible for the convenience they offer to RV'rs. Where else can you make one stop for fuel, propane, dump tanks and take on fresh water as well as a place to park for a few hours rest or overnight? I would still patronize them without the 5 cent/gallon discount on gas just for the full service they offer.

[kcdogger]

Originally Posted by mike625

This was the numbers I remember from that report - think it was for the month of AUG 2019 - "also there numbers came from TDS FB page"

6,500 - RVs - TDS trucks use 100,000 - RV used 120,000

Last number I saw there was a total of 16,000 RV's now - that would be around 300,000 gallons per month for RVs

Flying J sells around 1.2 BILLION gallons of fuel a year. If you assume that the total fuel sold to TSD card holders was split 1/3 Flying J, 1/3 Loves and 1/3 all the others that would be 100,000 gallons a month, or 1.2 Million gallons a year. That is .1% of Flying J sales, an insignificant to them. And you can be sure that at least some of the TSD card holders will still buy from them out of situational convenience. My guess is TSD sold Flying J a bill of goods that they would get substantially more business than they actually did. Flying J evaluated the relationship and decided they weren't benefiting enough to continue the program. It happens all the time in all businesses.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by kcdogger

Flying J sells around 1.2 BILLION gallons of fuel a year. If you assume that the total fuel sold to TSD card holders was split 1/3 Flying J, 1/3 Loves and 1/3 all the others that would be 100,000 gallons a month, or 1.2 Million gallons a year. That is .1% of Flying J sales, an insignificant to them. And you can be sure that at least some of the TSD card holders will still buy from them out of situational convenience. My guess is TSD sold Flying J a bill of goods that they would get substantially more business than they actually did. Flying J evaluated the relationship and decided they weren't benefiting enough to continue the program. It happens all the time in all businesses.

The only problem with your conclusion is that P/FJ had an exclusive contract with GS and was not legally able to enter into a contract with TSD. P/FJ pulled the plug, not because their deal with TSD was not profitable, but because they were facing legal consequences for violating an exclusive contract. Period.



I certainly agree that TSD sales may have been an insignificant part of P/FJ's profits. Perhaps if the sales had been much larger, P/FJ may have risked the expense of defending itself in a lawsuit, but weighing the cost of the suit plus the possible loss of income from its relationship with GS, proved to be the deciding factor. So, in this context, I would agree with you. In the end, P/FJ made a wise business decision.

[geordi]

From talking with a delivery driver at one particular Pilot location next to a state border, that ONE location sells approximately 70,000 gallons DAILY in diesel fuel.

When comparing volumes though, let's not compare RVs and space shuttles. Yes, TSD's volume of 220,000 gallons in one month might not be much against the monthly volume of ALL PFJ locations. BUT, that's not a fair comparison anyway. A fair comparison is how did TSD's 220,000 gallons show against other FLEET operators of a similar size?

6500 RVs and an unknown number of commercial trucks. I suspect a substantially lower number of trucks in their fleet, working / fueling more often than the bulk of the RVs that do not need to fuel daily.

Now if the volume of TSD's fleet is similar to other similarly-sized fleets, then TSD has a good negotiation position with chains. That we have a decent discount with Loves says that their volume is not insignificant. Maybe there are deeper discount tiers, I don't know.

Getting Bad Sam to see the error of their ways requires public outcry / making them aware that they have done something improper, and that will be why they decide to shift their policy and contract. If they don't care, then we can (and should) vote with our wallets, and eventually they WILL care, and things will change. That is how to get the attention of business in all situations.

[kcdogger]

Is there any confirmation that Good Sam pushed this issue other than a post on the TSD website? It is my understanding that TSD was marketed to fuel stations as a fleet card service for independent truckers so they could get discounts on fuel similar to the discounts offered to commercial fleet drivers. Expanding to RV owners was not in the contract proposal from TSD to Flying J. When that expansion occurred, Flying J likely told TSD that they already had a program for RVs that being Good Sam and since TSD expanded membership to a class not in the original agreement they cancelled the discounts.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by kcdogger

Is there any confirmation that Good Sam pushed this issue other than a post on the TSD website? It is my understanding that TSD was marketed to fuel stations as a fleet card service for independent truckers so they could get discounts on fuel similar to the discounts offered to commercial fleet drivers. Expanding to RV owners was not in the contract proposal from TSD to Flying J. When that expansion occurred, Flying J likely told TSD that they already had a program for RVs that being Good Sam and since TSD expanded membership to a class not in the original agreement they cancelled the discounts.

Without knowing the terms of the original agreement, what you suggest is certainly a possibility, IMO. Still, the main impetus for the cancellation would be a contract violation of which, in this new scenario, P/FJ was not initially aware.



If what you suggest is correct, it should take the onus off of GS for forcing the revocation and those who are beating up on GS should reconsider their criticism, at least on this issue. Business is business and GS is trying to protect its business. The unintended consequences of the GS decision, however, is the reaction expressed by most on this forum. Whether or not those consequences will lead to another business decision by GS to match or allow TSD discounts, is another story with an unknown finish.

[SteveJ.]

Originally Posted by zigzagrv

My MH is a gasser, so I don't have a dog in this fight. However, I try to use FJ whenever possible for the convenience they offer to RV'rs. Where else can you make one stop for fuel, propane, dump tanks and take on fresh water as well as a place to park for a few hours rest or overnight? I would still patronize them without the 5 cent/gallon discount on gas just for the full service they offer.

I avoid fueling with gas at P/FJ and Loves as their gas is not Top Tier unless they have a real brand name(i.e. Sinclair, Valero, Shell, etc)

[XBoater]

So I guess for me, the first big issue is the complete overcharging of most of the large truck stops. To charge customers such a huge premium is to say the least disappointing. Unfortunately given my size it is hard and inconvenient to shop around while on the highway from point A to point B. I do fill at my local gas station prior to leaving which is usually 15% or more cheaper and prior to leaving a destination I try to fill at a local station but that is not always possible. So again I knew that I was being gouged, but the TSD issue really focused the light on this.

This is an issue that we should all keep in mind. It is not GS that precipitated this price or the situation where the fuel stops are taking advantage of the truck/rv situation by gouging us. Some may comment on there being increased costs for the truck stop locations, but that is not true and most of the time they are charging generally the same price for auto gasoline as other exit fuel stops.

Secondly, there has been many comments about GS getting the difference between the $0.08 discount and the $0.30-$0.40 discount price of TSD. This difference is definitely not being pocketed by GS. Keep in mind that with the TSD program, TSD accepts all the liability for performance. TSD is guarantying payment and then performing all the collection functions and responsibilities. The payment between TSD is computerized, instance and most likely a single daily ACH. All fees are born by TSD.

While GS probably receives some benefit for our purchases, they are not accepting any of the responsibly or liability for our purchase. GS does maintain a customer base and advertises to that base to purchase from a vendor, that may be worthy of some monetary benefits, but the fuel companies are not going to give away large chunks of the profit margins for some advertising to a fringe customer base. I don't blame GS for enforcing their contract or P/FJ for abiding by it. This is business, if either side is not happy moving forward the contract will not be renewed.

Thirdly, the claims of our overall importance to the fuel companies. IMO, there is no way that the diesel purchase made by RV's register enough of a concern for these fuel companies to reduce their profit margins for single RV purchases. The contract between GS and P/FJ will be up for renewal at some point. If I am wrong, then P/FJ just won't renew it and re-negotiate with TSD. Time will tell.

In my situation, I am buying from the least expense, convenient location. I was a P/FJ customer for the most part, using my GS card and getting my $0.08 discount. Since last fall using the TSD program they all happened to be Love's, from Boston to Orlando to LA and finally Seattle. So this event does not really cause me any inconvenience. I am a bit worried about the repercussions of this backlash, but so far it looks like P/FJ said see ya' and that's that. I am disappointed though this summer trip to Alaska I will not be able to take advantage of this program.

[Turbojack]

Here is a post over on foreforums about what was on the TSB FB page.

Quote from: bigdog
Well, There you go.
Allegedly pilot nixed the entire EFS discount program at the behest of GS. I did ask over at the TSD FB page if that was in fact the case. If GS burned all those truckers. Then GS & CW will never get another cent from me.


Got a bit of an answer. TSD the trucking company did in fact lose their negotiated discount for their truck fleet because of camping world. Not sure if the EFS discount cancellation only effects TSD through EFS. Or if it is EFS in it's entirety. I suspect it was just TSD through EFS that is effected. The TSD P/FJ discount only came to pass in November. But the discount was negotiated by TSD a trucking company. Not specifically for RVR's.

Hopefully at some point in time, As more and more RVR's sign up for EFS and move away from P/FJ. P/FJ will not renew this GS contract. Just one more reason not to like Camping World.

[rlott2k]

To summarize...
TSD still offers great discounts thru Loves and others.
TSD lost the option to offer an inferior discount thru PFJ.
GS offers a good discount at PFJ albeit not as good.
GS made a good business decision to enter into this contract with PFJ
TSD also made a good business decision with their contracts.
Some People will spend more time whining about one of the above companies than they will filling their tanks.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by rlott2k

To summarize...
TSD still offers great discounts thru Loves and others.
TSD lost the option to offer an inferior discount thru PFJ.
GS offers a good discount at PFJ albeit not as good.
GS made a good business decision to enter into this contract with PFJ
TSD also made a good business decision with their contracts.
Some People will spend more time whining about one of the above companies than they will filling their tanks.

One minor correction above