Guns

[Route 66]

Carrying a gun is a legal and personal choice in the USA.

Those that believe in carrying and those that don't, need to respect each others choice and beliefs for this thread to continue.

You can state your opinion without belittling those that disagree.

Thanks!

[macnkat]

Originally Posted by mariogeneau

Being from Canada, I just can't wrap my mind around the gun thing. I should consider myself lucky I guess!

Ah yes, Canada. The crime free utopia of non-violence. Canadians are not Americans...and Americans are unique to the rest of the world so I guess you wouldn't get it.

[LadyFitz...]

Originally Posted by Yellowreef

Meh, should've known a one liner wouldn't do it. You see, I carry a gun for a living and people just assume that it is the only reason I carry. It is not, I carry to protect myself. Also, I seldom like getting into these conversations because it is someone's own choice whether they want to be armed or not. However, I feel that people on the "don't carry side" are very dismissive of people on the "carry" side and viceversa. Like I said, its a personal choice and there are good arguments on boh sides. As a practical person, I don't buy into the hyperbole on either side. I do not believe people are coming to the brink of death by the millions and only saved because someone happened to have a gun, and I rarely believe the third hand stories of terror at the rest stop. On the other side, being a responsible gun owner and knowing many responsible gun owners, I do not believe the stereotype of the cowboy, uneducated, tobacco chewing, trouble-seeking gun owner.

Now, a few points to add: Getting away from the hyperbole, you are about as likely to get killed at a rest area as you are to win millions playing the lottery. Probably will never ever happen. But that is not all that could happen to you. So, going back to the insurance comparison, no insurance will no help you any if you get killed. It will however help you if you are ever in a fender bender, a rock goes through your windshield, a semi looses control and smashes your car into a million pieces, or a neighborhood kid keys the door. In the same manner, to me anyways, my gun is insurance against ANY harm someone might mean me. Whether it might be a robbery, carjacking, assault, or any other myriad of things that ARE a lot more likely to occur. Forget the serial killers and escaped convicts and all other exagerated crap stories on the "pro" side of the argument. Nowadays you are more lilely to run into two or three drunks at a gas station that decided you looked at them the wrong way and simply wont take "I dont want any trouble" for an answer. In the last year I have been privy to "insight" into two such situations.

The first one was at a gas station. The victim was pumping gas with his girlfriend in the car. A young man approahed and started "picking" on him. Nothing he said, no matter how non-confrontational appeased the other guy. Now two or three of his friends joined in and it only got worse. Finally, the other guy with his friends behind him verbally expressed that he meant to assault the victim and started coming towards him. The victim pulled out a gun and warned the guy to stay back or he would be shot. The guy kept coming and was shot. The guy that was shot and his friends fled the scene and were caught by the cops a bit later.

The second one was at a taco shop ordering window. The victim was ordering food and two drunk guys were in line behind him. All of a sudden they started in on him, calling him names and saying they would beat him. The victim started walking to his truck repeatedly saying he didnt want any problems. Right as all three reached the victims truck, one guy pulled out a knife and while the victim was distracted by the knife the other guy sucker punched him. The victim hit the ground and was repeatedly kicked all over, including the head. They got about $20 from the victim and fled. The victim ended up in the hospital with a concussion.

Now, don't get me wrong. Shootings are never EVER glamorous, and never EVER as portrayed on tv. Bad guys dont freeze at the sight of a gun, dont stop fighting or die with just one or two shots, pulling the trigger is never easy, and it is never EVER easy to cope with the emotional aftermath of having shot someone. That said, I will defend myself if I need to and my gun is the tool I choose to defend myself with. It is NOT a deterrent, and it will not come out until I am ready to shoot. It is not something I take lightly, and I would have to be in fear for my life or someone else's life to go there.

All I'm trying to say is that I'd rather be safe than sorry. I know guys that could've had their gun in XYZ situation but didn't and regreted it. That won't be me.

Curious. first you agree that situations needing a gun are rare but then you state you have known several people who have been in this situation. Your examples of why to carry insurance on a car have nothing to do with preventing an accident. Insurance only provides recovery from the damage of an accident. Death is not something one can normally recover from. A gun is not insurance against something happening; it is a defense mechanism for if something does happen (and, again, the chances of that happening are far less than of being killed in an auto accident).

The point of my car analogy is one is far more likely to die in a car accident over which the victim has no control than by malicious action by someone that a gun might have prevented. Yet people still continue to drive when the obvious solution to the danger is to just stop driving.

I've never put anyone down for carrying guns. It's a personal choice. Like you, I feel arguments on both sides tend to be overblown.

[xplorer33]

being from florida, we have a ccw and we use it in all the states that reciprocate. I understand the impossible task that police officers have to stop crime, but I also don't kid myself in believing they can be in all places that crime happens, and most times their role in these situations is to write a report and file it. if my family is going to be safe, then it's my job to protect them, not live by the illusion that good will always triump against evil. evil works hard to succeed. we are animals first, and some people never evolve past that fact.

[Yellowreef]

Originally Posted by LadyFitz...

Curious. first you agree that situations needing a gun are rare but then you state you have known several people who have been in this situation.

No, I agree that situations where you die from it are rare. I also stated that there are more common situations such as a mugging or assault.

Your examples of why to carry insurance on a car have nothing to do with preventing an accident. Insurance only provides recovery from the damage of an accident. Death is not something one can normally recover from. A gun is not insurance against something happening; it is a defense mechanism for if something does happen (and, again, the chances of that happening are far less than of being killed in an auto accident).

I never said insurance prevents an accident or a gun prevents a crime from occuring, I also said I wasn't talking about death on the insurance or the gun side. Insurance provides a means to recover (protect yourself from the financial loss) from the fender bender and a gun provides a means to protect yourself from the mugging.

The point of my car analogy is one is far more likely to die in a car accident over which the victim has no control than by malicious action by someone that a gun might have prevented. Yet people still continue to drive when the obvious solution to the danger is to just stop driving.

The whole death thing, in my opinion is hyperbole on both sides of the argument.

I've never put anyone down for carrying guns. It's a personal choice. Like you, I feel arguments on both sides tend to be overblown.

Agreed.

[Chuck 1935]

Who really cares ! If you don't approve of guns, you won't have one. If you do approve of guns, it's your choice as to what you want to do about guns. This debate will never change anyones mind although it is fun to needle the opposing side !
I have poked fun and have fun poked at me, who cares. Way too many are taking this far to seriously.

[scenic route]

Originally Posted by Chuck 1935

Who really cares ! If you don't approve of guns, you won't have one. If you do approve of guns, it's your choice as to what you want to do about guns. This debate will never change anyones mind although it is fun to needle the opposing side !
I have poked fun and have fun poked at me, who cares. Way too many are taking this far to seriously.

Agreed! Here's a good example of that statement. The Volokh Conspiracy » Funny Sign Bob

[LadyFitz...]

Originally Posted by Chuck 1935

Who really cares ! If you don't approve of guns, you won't have one. If you do approve of guns, it's your choice as to what you want to do about guns. This debate will never change anyones mind although it is fun to needle the opposing side !
I have poked fun and have fun poked at me, who cares. Way too many are taking this far to seriously.

Thank you!

[chasfm11]

I'll bet that the OP is now wondering what kind of a 13 page firestorm his one line post created. I just checked and he appears to be a new RVer with a limited post count.

The topic of guns in RV or guns in general seems to elicit a visceral response every time it is raised. When we first started RVing (rentals in the late 1990s), I never even gave the idea of guns a second thought. Perhaps I was just naive but security didn't seem to be a problem then either. I do think that times have changed.

I've had a thread running about using RVs as a component of an overall emergency preparedness plan. While I freely admit that evacuating in an RV may come with its own set of problems, it does seem to offer a better solution, provided the proper preparations are made in advance. One of the lesson learned in hurricane evacuations was that the greatest threat was from fellow evacuees. Security during an evacuation sequence, when normal government resources are stretched very thin, is certainly at least a consideration. Like all of the other aspects of preparations, security arrangements are an individual choice.

[TXiceman]

Firearm topics will often generate the same responses that religion and politics pull from the wood work.

We all have to have an open mind, discuss things in a calm manner and respect others opinions.

Once the attacks start and it is not longer calm, I for one do not want to participate. This is when the moderators will step in and shut things down if peace cannot be maintained.

Ken

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by Chuck 1935

Who really cares ! If you don't approve of guns, you won't have one. If you do approve of guns, it's your choice as to what you want to do about guns. This debate will never change anyones mind although it is fun to needle the opposing side !
I have poked fun and have fun poked at me, who cares. Way too many are taking this far to seriously.

Agreed here as well....

I have to say that this group is the most respectful I have ever seen on the debate. There are times I want to egg someone on but the dialog has been polite for the most part.

At least we live in a free country where we can have choices and openly debate such subjects.

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by Warden

Agree 100%, Never let anyone know what you have , what you Carry.

If you ran into me at a campground you would probably never know I have a weapon secured in my camper. Can't carry at the pool in my swimming trunks

[Francesca]

Good Grief.

Speaking of "politeness"...
I think I've taken pains to avoid insulting anyone here, but due to Taz's recent User Name Change, it NOW looks as if I called him a "Redneck"!
At the time I posted my protest at being called "a fool", Taz's screen name and only identifier was "VA Redneck", as quoted if anyone cares to look at the original post #153.

Originally Posted by Francesca

Dear VA Redneck,

I am not a fool.

Francesca

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by Francesca

Good Grief.

Speaking of "politeness"...
I think I've taken pains to avoid insulting anyone here, but due to Taz's recent User Name Change, it NOW looks as if I called him a "Redneck"!
At the time I posted my protest at being called "a fool", Taz's screen name and only identifier was "VA Redneck", as quoted if anyone cares to look at the original post #153.

You made no such insult.

I just checked and my old nickname from my days in the Corps was available so I asked if it could be changed. I am still a country boy at heart.