If RV's were Airplanes...

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by Ua747captain

If RV's were like Airplanes there would be a lot more smoking holes on the highways.

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by okcnewbie

They would make a TV show about pretty cool guys Repo'ing RV's.

QUESTION....Why don't they Repo Rv's very often?????????

ANSWER.......Can't get em' started!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by tnedator

So, I think in summary to the OP.

We get what we pay for.

RV's are dirt cheap as compared to planes. Heck, my ACE cost the same as my SUV. There is absolutely no way that I could expect my 31' moving house to be defect free when it cost the same as my largely robot built, cookie cutter SUV.

Yes, the RV industry sucks and puts out crap, but that's largely due to the fact that we don't want to pay for quality. Given a choice between paying $90-150k for a gas, or $230-400k for a DP vs. $300k for a high quality gas and $700k for a high quality DP, almost every person is going to by the cheap alternative, so there is no incentive for manufacturers to create expensive, high QC'd coaches that people will pass over for their cheap alternatives.

Airplanes are different. If they fail, they crash and the NTSB goes after the manufacturer, but as a result, planes are expensive. REALLY expensive.

I disagree... We get crap because we don't demand better!

First, RV manufacturers play games with the Suggested Retail Prices on these things... Anytime you have an industry where you can routinely walk in to a new RV dealer and get 20-25% off the Suggested Retail Price of a unit, you know that you've got $$$ games going on. If they can give that kind of discount right out of the box then everyone knows that the Retail Prices are GROSSLY AND ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED to make the regular Joe walking in the door "feel" like he's getting a great deal!

They could up the price a bit to provide a HIGHer Quality, and reduce some of the Glitz and Glam that lacks any real behind the walls/floor quality for any long lasting performance. We all know that the "ladies" in the end make the final decisions in most cases and the manufacturers know that...which is why they focus so much on the FLUFF and forget about the substance!!! The vast majority of folks buy an RV solely on how it looks with little to no thought as to it roadworthiness and quality.

We get Crap because we "settle for Crap"!

[89sandman]

We'd all be dead!

[dix39]

Or you could just build your own aircraft to whatever standards you would like. There are still a few rules, but not the same as certificated aircraft.

The same would be true for RVs. Some folks do that, or buy an older one and rebuild it to their standards.

IMHO, our government is what raises the cost of aircraft ownership/flying, but it also makes flying safer. Do we want more government regulations on the RV industry along with the added cost and restrictions?

Just my 2c.

Steve

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

I disagree... We get crap because we don't demand better!

We get Crap because we "settle for Crap"!

Not all the time.
Quality was why I bought a pre-09 build Monaco.
Aqua hot with reliable components, no crap shade motors (no shade motors) superb hardwood interior, and so forth.
Research brings better results!

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by 89sandman

We'd all be dead!

Mr. Sandman...YOU GOT IT MY FRIEND!!! That's the ONLY POINT I was attempting to get across! You said it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[okcnewbie]

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

Mr. Sandman...YOU GOT IT MY FRIEND!!! That's the ONLY POINT I was attempting to get across! You said it ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[emoji144][emoji144]

But we all have at least one (MH). That's everybody else's point. They make em', we buy em'. Many people are happy, some are not.
We'll all be dead way before we're all happy with the real or imagined quality we see in the MH industry.

The two choices we have now will be exactly the same 20, 30 years from now.
Buy one or don't buy one.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by okcnewbie

But we all have at least one (MH). That's everybody else's point. They make em', we buy em'. Many people are happy, some are not.
We'll all be dead way before we're all happy with the real or imagined quality we see in the MH industry.

The two choices we have now will be exactly the same 20, 30 years from now.
Buy one or don't buy one.

Yes, this is the REAL point.
Have fun NOW, you'll be dead long enough

[Searching_Ut]

If an aircraft were built to the standards of an RV, with the same totally unqualified technicians I definitely wouldn’t fly. I don’t think we need the same over engineered components in an RV as you would find in an aircraft. Many of the problems are simply extremely poor installation and manufacturing processes. improvements here shouldn’t add much to the finished product cost.

Having worked aircraft maintenance for 40 years, I often find it amazing that RV repair facilities charge roughly the same labor rate as what you would pay labor wise to have an F-16 aircraft repaired in an overhaul facility where the equipment and facility costs are much higher. Parts on the other hand are a totally different story, with anything designed and certified for aircraft having a significant price.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

I disagree... We get crap because we don't demand better!

First, RV manufacturers play games with the Suggested Retail Prices on these things... Anytime you have an industry where you can routinely walk in to a new RV dealer and get 20-25% off the Suggested Retail Price of a unit, you know that you've got $$$ games going on. If they can give that kind of discount right out of the box then everyone knows that the Retail Prices are GROSSLY AND ARTIFICIALLY INFLATED to make the regular Joe walking in the door "feel" like he's getting a great deal!

They could up the price a bit to provide a HIGHer Quality, and reduce some of the Glitz and Glam that lacks any real behind the walls/floor quality for any long lasting performance. We all know that the "ladies" in the end make the final decisions in most cases and the manufacturers know that...which is why they focus so much on the FLUFF and forget about the substance!!! The vast majority of folks buy an RV solely on how it looks with little to no thought as to it roadworthiness and quality.

We get Crap because we "settle for Crap"!

Sorry, that's massively oversimplified.

So, again, following on to your original post by comparing them to airplanes. You would be ok paying what, $5 million for a Tiffin Phaeton made like an airplane? A Newmar Kingaire at $10 million. Some of those high end bus coaches being $20 to $30 million?

Those are what you would pay if RVs were like planes.

My lowly little ACE would be over a million. A conversion van pushing a half million.

Multi decade old four seat planes where you have to choose between four people or two people with luggage, and are essentially flying Yugos are 100-200k. The same thing new, would be a half million give or take.

It's not about demanding more, it's about people's words are cheap and their wallets tighter than a ____ in ____.

I think it sucks that the RV industry produces crap, but there is one reason and one reason only, and that's the consumers are more interested in cheap prices than high quality.

[ThePowells]

If RVs were airplanes, a new, my coach would have been about 2.5 mil. Every part in it would be traceable back to the lot number of the raw product that arrived in each different part vendor's inventory. Every "critical" part would have each assembler's printed and signed name, and the QC certification for that lot of parts. There would be NHTSA inspectors visiting and verifying the QC processes used. Every part would be traceable back to the point that the person who unloaded the spool of hose from the first transfer could be located. Everytime you have the oil changed, it has to be done by somebody with a certification and they have to fill out a report and file it. Then you as an operator would have to go through extensive training and have to qualify on the size and type of RV you have.

If airplanes were built like RV's, I would sell everything I own and by stock in parachutes factories.

As far as real life, Charlie (brother's first father in law) had a Cessna 172. It had an engine rebuild done in Atlanta. 12 years later, he was flying from NC to Anchorage. He stopped at a FBO (gas station for planes) and had the oil changed and a few other minor things. Next morning, he took off and 15 minutes in he smelled burning oil and before he could feather out, the oil pressure light came on and as he cut the engine, it seized. He was able to contact the FBO on his way down. He was picked up (landed on the same roadway Charlie used) and the plane was recovered and shipped back to the FBO. The FAA was there before the plane was recovered and actually did his primary "on the road". At the FBO, then engine was pulled and found that the FAA certified technician failed to tighten the oil plug. The technical investigation went back through all of the maintenance records and found that the Airframe Mechanic that had overseen the rebuild in Atlanta had installed the wrong pistons. That FBO underwent an anal exam and 50% of that AM and 10% of ALL the FBO records for (I think 10 years) a long time were inspected. The AM retired rather than go back through re-certification. Even though the failure was in Alaska, the FBO in Atlanta got jammed for an old problem that had nothing to do with the failure.
In the end, Charlie got a brand new engine with 1 hour dyno time, oil lines, oil cooler, engine compartment was cleaned and painted, plus the windshield was replaced due to not being properly covered during the cleaning. They also provided him with a 3 year old plane with a fuel card to complete his trip, and paid for all his bills while parked at the FBO.
Also, I had a friend who died in the crash of a restored F-86. During the crash investigation, they found that the pins in the brake calipers had been turned the incorrect number of times, resulting in the brakes not working properly. In reading that report, it gives you a serious insight into what the FAA goes through in a "small" crash investigation.

So then, how much would your Speedco Oil change cost now?


RIP Wyatt... You have your own wings now.

[Wundertaker]

Originally Posted by tnedator

Sorry, that's massively oversimplified.

So, again, following on to your original post by comparing them to airplanes. You would be ok paying what, $5 million for a Tiffin Phaeton made like an airplane? A Newmar Kingaire at $10 million. Some of those high end bus coaches being $20 to $30 million?

Those are what you would pay if RVs were like planes.

My lowly little ACE would be over a million. A conversion van pushing a half million.

Multi decade old four seat planes where you have to choose between four people or two people with luggage, and are essentially flying Yugos are 100-200k. The same thing new, would be a half million give or take.

It's not about demanding more, it's about people's words are cheap and their wallets tighter than a ____ in ____.

I think it sucks that the RV industry produces crap, but there is one reason and one reason only, and that's the consumers are more interested in cheap prices than high quality.

Sorry you missed the point of the original post. Mr. Sandman was the only responder who got the point...see post #32. Most everyone else read waaaaaay tooooooo muuuuuuuuch into it!

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by Wundertaker

Sorry you missed the point of the original post. Mr. Sandman was the only responder who got the point...see post #32. Most everyone else read waaaaaay tooooooo muuuuuuuuch into it!

Well, I may not be alone in "missing it".
Perhaps and explainetary epilogue?