Community Forums

mrblanche · 11-23-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcellisesq

It is generally contrary to public policy to attempt to contract away liability resulting from negligence.

Daniel C. Ellis
2005 Winnebago Journey 39F
Portland, Oregon

It is a pretty good rule of thumb that these agreements are, essentially, intimidation, or an attempt at it, to keep anyone harmed from suing. Guess what. They don't work and have little force in court. Essentially, you can't sign away your basic rights, no matter how much someone might like you to. I usually sign such things, give the person who requested it a wink and a nod, maybe even a nudge nudge, and go my merry way.

I wonder if they'd include you being held harmless if your motor home rolled away and went through their office?

Bowser · 11-24-2012, 12:46 AM

As an investigator for the State of Oregon Builder's Board I routinely dealt with builders who had owners sign acceptances and waivers prior to closing. These usually read much like the verbiage in that park rental.

I would explain that one couldn't sign away rights one didn't know they had, including the right to have problems corrected in an appropriate manner.

That park owner sounds like someone who would have you sign something saying that if he shoots you to death you accept that and will hold the owner harmless.

I wouldn't go near the place again, though. Boondocking has advantages.

Route 66 · 11-24-2012, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrblanche

I wonder if they'd include you being held harmless if your motor home rolled away and went through their office?

GWinger · 11-24-2012, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JudyH

I think that if you sign it you could have stayed there, and common sense would prevail if any damage was caused by negligence. I mean what judge would take that contract, as to allow for you to let someone destroy your belongings, without accepting fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickO

I don't think this verbiage is all that unusual but their reaction to you crossing out a line seems weird. I too wonder if there isn't some explanation. Did they offer nothing? It sounds as though they really didn't want to do business with you once this happened for some reason.

Rick

Quote:

Originally Posted by greezykid

Common sense usually does not matter if you sign the agreement.

What part of the term "legal agreement" don't some folks understand?
Whether the 'agreement' would hold up in court is another manner but if you sign, it 'appears' that you would be agreeing! I'd hate to try to take that one to court if I changed my mind.

"Common sense" isn't part of the equation at all. In my mind, common sense would dictate, DON'T SIGN!
GWinger
GWinger

codgerbill · 11-24-2012, 06:40 AM

Prior to my retirement I worked for a big electric utility. My job entailed working with large industrial customers. We frequently had our equipment on thier property (Industrial Substations...big transformers). Some customers insisted that we sign thier "Indemnity (waiver)" clause to gain entrance to thier property in order to service our (the utilities) equipment. Uninformed people in the company (Marketing personel) insisted that the indemnity clause would not hold up in court. We requested from our legal department, a ruling on the subject and we insisted that it be put in writing. The legal department sent us a document stating that under no circumstances should we sign the waiver. If the customer held thier ground on the waiver, we would walk away...and either leave the equipment (substation transformer)out of service or not back to the normal service state. In almost all cases the customers relented and waved us in without signing.

The point being that our legal department did put it in writing that we should not sign a waiver of our rights.

wa8yxm · 11-24-2012, 09:34 AM

I will give you two opinions and one bit of advice: and a fact.

Personally, when ask to sign that "Hold Harmless" I would have handed it back, demanded any reference to me be removed from the park computers, Told them why and left for greener pastures.

Second opinion: In my opinion what you want is legal advice.

Advice: Legal advice can be obtained from a licensed attorney, Usually for a fee.. Please ask your question of such a person.

Fact: Lawyers seem to feel they should have a monopoly on giving out legal advice and thus tend to frown on those who do so without a law degree and license. Fact 2: I choose not to challenge that.

As for why I'd have headed for another park.. I strongly suspect you already know the answer to that, since you posted it.

RSchleder · 11-25-2012, 06:22 AM

Why would you even want to stay in a "park" that takes NO responsibility for the damage inflicted by their employees?

palehorse89 · 11-25-2012, 06:46 AM

I have been following this since it started and have one question for all of you, don't all of you have insurance? Their fault, employee fault, guy next to me fault, what ever happens to my insured autos,coach,motorcycles, home, are covered,repaired and back in service to me. If the insurance company wants to go after someone for neglance for the damage they had to pay for, that is up to them and I don't worry about how they conduct thier business. All I do is pay my insurance costs and travel without worries, to many important things in life that I have to worry about. One more thing, if I hit or damage something of thier's my insurance will cover that also.

Craig_R · 11-25-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palehorse89

I have been following this since it started and have one question for all of you, don't all of you have insurance? Their fault, employee fault, guy next to me fault, what ever happens to my insured autos,coach,motorcycles, home, are covered,repaired and back in service to me. If the insurance company wants to go after someone for neglance for the damage they had to pay for, that is up to them and I don't worry about how they conduct thier business. All I do is pay my insurance costs and travel without worries, to many important things in life that I have to worry about. One more thing, if I hit or damage something of thier's my insurance will cover that also.

We all have insurance but the other thing we have is deductible. Why should I have to pay out of pocket for damage done to my property due to the fault of park staff?

palehorse89 · 11-25-2012, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig_R

We all have insurance but the other thing we have is deductible. Why should I have to pay out of pocket for damage done to my property due to the fault of park staff?

The cost of my deductible does not warrent the worries and problems that I have read here. Most places I have stayed have the small print that I never read as I just want to get on with my travels and have fun. I luckly have never have had any problems in any campgrounds and parks. I guess I have my deductibles low enough that I don't worry about thinks that might not happen.

Pnr · 11-25-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francesca

If the negligence alleged in red above is true, the rest is nonsense.

Not according to six malpractice lawyers. All six were not connected to each other in any way.

SteveLevin · 11-25-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcellisesq

It is generally contrary to public policy to attempt to contract away liability resulting from negligence.

To be slightly more accurate, the level of negligence can vary from state to state.

In some states, such as California, the bar is set at "gross negligence" which is a much higher bar.

Steve

MSHappyCampers · 11-26-2012, 09:36 AM

Just FIDO them! (Forget It & Drive Off)

JohnBoyToo · 11-26-2012, 10:00 AM

I had to chuckle at the example of stepping in a hole at the campground as this happened to my wife right off the pavement of our site on the first 15 minutes of our weeks vacation and she broke her leg.... had to go home as she couldn't get in and out of the rv ...
still in a walking boot and still considering what we will do....

I've always been told you can't sign away your safety no matter what it says...